Please help! Severe sleep deprivation....SOB :-(

[clouiseg]

Hello all I really hope someone can help & apologise in advance for the essay

I have 3 DDs (aged 13,8 + 22m) and am 6 months pregnant with DC4. Am at the end of my tether with DD3 not sleeping to the point I'm actually crying as I type

A litte more info...DD1 slept poorly until 18m but great after. DD2 is Autistic but has slept ok since around 7yo. DD3 is nearly 2 but DOES NOT SLEEP THROUGH YET!!

Last night I was up 8 TIMES with her! Being pregnant with the 4th baby I am exhausted and have been forced to take early maternity leave as I was struggling to cope day to day DH is an HGV driver so is away for days & works funny hours.

DD3 has had poor health since she was born with several hospital admissions thanks to a compromised immune system so I'm certain the ups and downs have contributed. In herself she is incredibly content and very advanced, developing wonderfully, speaking in sentences etc so I have no concerns there. She is an absolute joy. BUT she wakes several times nightly, every night. She has a natural diet & I have altered her whole routine to try to remedy the issue as follows:

Limited or no sleep during the day (max 45 min sleep) as the longer she sleeps the worse it is!

Bathtime early eve with lights dimmed & cuddles to wind her down with a story & warm milk

Bedtime between 8-9 pm where she always falls asleep straight away! She only gets her bedtime bear (had since birth) when she is actually in bed so she associates it with sleep time

When she wakes through the night and stands at her gate crying, go in, put back into bed (no speaking) cover her up, kiss & back out. The only words we ever use are "sleepy time now baby".

We NEVER bring her into bed as tempting as it is! She has been in a toddler bed for about 5 months as we thought she may be waking due to banging the cot sides as shes very tall! She LOVES her pink flower bed & her room!

I relented on Sat night and begged MIL to have her overnight so I could sleep but it just made things worse as I was told "well she slept for ME!!"...but thats quite possibly because MIL had her in her bed after I said NOT TO!!!!

I feel utterly silly as a mum of 3 nearly 4 that I can't even sort out my DDs sleep but I am on the edge now...and the thought of having a new baby in 3 months who will be breastfeeding through the night AND dealing with DD3...well I could cry! And bearing in mind I'll have to be up & out the door to take older DDs to school with the babies by 8am...arrggghhhhh!

As sorry as I am to rant on...I feel relieved that I have got it off my chest. SO grateful for mumsnet!

Oh dear....my 3 have all gone through crap sleep periods....so i know how you feel. And to be pg too, must be difficult.

Having read your story i think your daughter is going to bed far too late. My dd used to wake lots in the night when she was overtired. What time is her nap.....how long from that to bedtime? Maybe it's too long?

Just a thought......

!

Thanks for replying littlemiss

Generally she sleeps between 2 and 3pm but it depends on her entirely. At times she just won't sleep in the day and then we adjust her bedtime to 7:30-8pm but if she does have a nap she'll happily sleep for 2 hours (if I don't wake her)! Then the nights are hideous. A few weeks ago she seemed very tired so I put her down at 7pm and she was awake by 11pm til 2am! I'm getting sick of people commenting on my eyebags and constant yawns! lol

I appreciate any feedback and am willing to try anything at this point in time...even welcome criticism if it precedes good advice!

loving the idea of cakes!!

I think it often takes a while for any change in routine to have an impact. Some people think you should put them to bed at the same times every day. It's worth a try. Do the usual/common routine of nap after lunch - between 1-3 no later or no longer than 2hours then bath around 6.30-7pm ish....

Kids often sleep better the more sleep they have in the day and the earlier they go to bed.

Sorry if i'm telling you stuff you already know or have heard. My dd used to have a great 2 hour nap but was too early in the day, so by bedtime was overtired so was awake for hours in the middle of the night. once i moved her to the 1-3pm nap time she stopped waking. She' done it for 4 months up to the age of 18months.....

What time is she up in the morning? My kids are often uo between 6-7am and if the baby rarely sleeps past 7am i wake him to set the whole day off to the right start. 6am is early for me, but it means i can fit in his naps at the right time etc not perfect cos he wakes between 4-5am for a feed but sleeps the rest of the time...

Poor you. I'd agree that bedtime is too late for your dd and wouldn't be surprised if this is the sole reason she sleeps badly. Also that you need to stick to a change in routine for a few days. Difficult when you have other dcs I'm sure, but hopefully worth it in the end.

If I were you I'd creep her bedtime forward by 15 mins a day until it's more like 7 or 7.30pm. Perhaps by doing it gradually it will have less of an impact night by night.

It might be hellish- I find that tweaking the routine or doing any sort of sleep training normally is!- but at least you can feel in control of the hell, iyswim, and know there is an end in sight. It can't be worse than it is now anyway.

I am less experienced in the joys of childrearing than you (just one 12mo dd) so do tell me to shut up!

Thankyou so much for the replies...and no I won't tell you to shut up lol, one child or 4, we're all in the same boat and as I said any help is welcome!

It does seem that putting her down earlier may be an option, the only issue I have is that I normally have to wait until DD2 (autistic) is settled as she requires a great deal of intervention and has a set process we have to go through each night or she wont settle. Any deviation at all...even putting DD3 down early or rain on her window...often ends in chaos and disturbs DD2s routine so I sort of spread myself around to sort them all out. A LOT lol.

I think the first step may be putting her down nearer 7...which I'll try tonight along with the earlier bath.

Does anyone find that a long daytime nap makes for a hellish night? She seems to survive on so little sleep its a wonder shes such a star! I manged to get my eldest into a routine of sleeping through by restricting the daytime naps?

She wakes in the morning around 6-7 as my older 2 are up and its absolutely impossible to keep DD2 quiet, she shouts out and is difficult to control (more so) in the mornings, On occasion I have had to wake little one up as she seems to want to stay asleep!

I am itching to see if I can get this problem sorted either before DD4 arrives, or before my hallucinations kick in, whichever is first!

Morning all!

Well I attempted the earlier bedtime last night and was surprised!!

Aside from the fact that DD2 did indeed go into meltdown 5 mins after putting DD3 to bed at 7:30 (TRYING EVERYTHING to keep her crying to a minimum volume so she didnt disturb DD3!) it all went ok!

DD3 went off at around 7:45 in the end, and only woke up TWICE in the night!! Still not perfect but a great improvement on 8 times!! And I had a whole 6.5 hours before she first awoke at 2:30!

FINGERS CROSSED FOR TONIGHT!!!! Will knock another 10 mins off and try getting her out for a stack of fresh air today to wear her out!!

Thank you so much, and any other tips are still VERY welcome!

Yay!!!! Glad you had a much better night! I think the way to see it is small steps rather than a quick fix.

I've been slowly night weaning my 10 month old, and now we're down to one wake at 5am for a 'diluted feed' which i hoping will be dropped as that s how i dropped the others...its taken several weeks, but each night (mostly) is better than the previous.

Must be hard for you to try and fit in around DD2's requirements.....may take her sometime to get used to the small changes too.

Hiya!

You are spot on with the small steps, although I will try anything to keep my sanity!

I was thinking last night that the reason I didnt have these difficulties previously was because DD2 was only diagnosed 3 years ago, before DD3 arrived. So the issue has doubled in that I need to co-ordinate the routine to fit DD2 & 3! Am thinking of implementing a bedtime chart for DD2 so that she can be rewarded for adapting to the new routine...if I can keep my eyes open long enough to find the felt tips & paints lol!!

Seriously though, to anyone else they may think that waking twice in a night is awful...to me its progress! mind you, DH arrived home last night and I was looking forward to an extra pair of hands but he's been called out again from 6pm tonight and wont be back til tomorrow so I'm going it alone....

wish me luck!!!

Good luck, it certainly sounds like you have your hands full. Sorry to say I'm too new at this to offer much advice, but a friend's DD (aged about 2 years) slept a lot better when they moved her into a proper bed, from cot/cotbed. A thought, but if the early bedtime works, great :)

Quick update!!

Followed the same routine last night but knocked 15 mins off her bedtime. It took around 5 return trips to her bed afer getting out but she settled fairly and was asleep by 8:15.

And the best bit? She only woke up ONCE!! At 1am for 20 mins...then asleep all night until 6:15am.

OH MY GOSH!!!

I wasnt asleep thanks to a very active bump & sensitive bladder (!) so am shattered but feel so happy that DD slept!

Heres to many more...and the advice has been appreciated more than I can say. XXX

Hurrah that is fantastic! Really pleased for you.

Thank you

Brilliant news ! Long may it continue!

Now if only i could solve my ds's nightwakings so easily

Clouiseg - my ds2 is a nightmare and needs lots if comforting throughout the night. He is 2.6 but it's been going on for about a year. He has had 4 craniosacral sessions and before the pox hit (last week) which sent everything haywire we were getting down to only one midnight wake up - before we were at about 6-7 tines a night with ds3 also waking. I honestly think it's helped alot

littlemiss I think some of the advice on here should be bottled & sold lol. I hope you manage to do as well with lo as you have before! I'll be back here with DC4 begging you for help this time next year hehe 1

lolly how interesting! Feel very for you at the pox causing such an upheaval! I'm sconvinced all the medical intervention has caused havoc with DDs sleep over a long period of time because she has spent a fair bit in hospital. But I wonder if you may have a link for more info on the cranio help? I'm sure I've heard of it before but know nothing!

Hi- I can't work out cut and paste on my iPhone but if u go to wikipedia and type in craniosacral therapy you get a good description. If she has had health issues it could be associated. I joke that the lady I see is the witch dr but she is actually a qualified osteopath.

Thanks clouise that's the joy of mnet!

I have 3 kids, all had totally different sleep issues, for totally different reasons so I;m well read Thought DC3 was going to be a the one that slept.......only up at 5am so....small steps again

Stupid thing is when they do sleep through i don;t anyway!

Have a good weekend and enjoy the peace and quiet and the sleep x

I really feel for you, but glad to hear things are getting better. My one piece of advice which is worth remembering for dc4 is always go to bed when they do. If you stay up waiting for the next wake up it will be the one time they sleep for 6 hours!

I struggled to get to sleep when dd2 was born & the midwife said to stop stressing and even if I only got 5 mins sleep before the next feed that's better than nothing!

ty lolly I'll be having a look into that very shortly!!

littlemiss I LOL'd at that...the number of times I've complained that I'm shattered...then when she has settled well I'm wide awake worrying that she's TOO quiet !

bump I agree with that advice! It is a challenge with a teenager too (who is having other issues at the moment - see my other post in behaviour!) so I have to try to spend alone time with each of them as much as possible. I do sometimes feel very stretched...esp at the moment with my big belly causing me sleepless nights anyway! Often wish I could afford a fairy godmother to come in & help with the cleaning/ironing/washing that seems to fill my nights lol.

As it is we didnt have such a great night last night, routine followed to a tee but she did wake a fair bit. However DH was off for a change so I glued myself to the bed & let HIM get up & see to her!! ...Oh well today is another day!! x

Clouiseg, so sorry you're going through this - if it's any consolation I'm going through the same thing with DS (3.3) at the mo - random night time waking for no apparent reason!

I also subscribe to the whole "sleep breeds sleep" - this last week notwithstanding, DS has been an amazing sleeper, 7pm - 6/7am, and he still has an afternoon nap from about 1:30 for between and hour and two hours.

If he doesn't have that nap, his sleep at night is much worse, or he waked much earlier.

It does sound like your LO's bed time is too late, so I agree with the other posters that you should maybe try to bring it forward. Also, any routine will take time to establish - it's just important to remain consistent and predictable as much as you can, although I understand that could be hard with your DD2.

Thank you No way

I will confess I find it odd when I come downstairs at 7:30 and she's not here!! I'm so used to her being up til 9 that I wander around aimlessly for the first 10 minutes trying to think of what to do

I know we will have the odd bad night still but truly hope that by the time baby arrives she will be at least sleeping most of the night!

The other prob I have is actually getting her to sleep during the day!! She is put to bed at 12:30-1:00 but refuses to sleep until around 2-2:30 so I need to try to sort that!

But overall I'm sure we'll make progress soon! x

Morning all

well not a good few days

have been sticking to the routine like glue and getting her to sleep has been tough (18 times up and down the stairs to put her back into bed!) but eventually she settles!

However the last 3 nights have been awful. For example, last night 7 times she was up

Have had very little sleep as DD2 was woken by her at 4am and it took til 5:30 to get them settled.

DH was on a night shift so got home at 6am and went straight to bed. Am very exhausted and scratching my head tbh!

When she awakens she comes to her door and cries at the gate. As soon as I come out into the hall she gets back into bed but wont settle until I go in and see to her. If I leave her at the door she cries until she is sick and obviously wakes DD2 up. I'm at a loss as to how else to deal with her. At 5am I was so tempted to just get her in my bed as bump was wide awake and bouncing around too and I was at the end of my tether .

Have the new HV coming to meet me today, do I beg her for help??

X