cant cope with dsd

[InnocentRedhead]

so glad i am at work tonight away from this... dsd doe snot sleep - at all. she will go down at around 10pm (on a good night) (we start trying from around 8pm - same routine CC and return method) having been up since 6.30am - with a 40 minute nap!

She is knackered and it is doing her health no good, you will cradle her for less than a minute but then her eyes roll and then she wont let herself go. It is so bad, me and DP NEVER get any time either working or got dsd. she fights it, finds anything to keep herself awake!!!! it is horrible because she is doing her health no good

Well tonight is just horrible - she is not settling for anything - i was on phone to DP and she was just hysterical - she has not even had a nap today and has been up since 6.20. She will nto sleep and she will just burn herself out but when?!

Could this be night terrors? please it is so concerning, the cry i heard was painful but she is not in pain and when DP went into her room she was just kneeled at the head of the bed facing the wall crying. Freaky stuff really.

need serious help tbh

How old is your step daughter?

21m

It could be separation anxiety- a lot go through it around 21mo... I had to sleep in with my DS for a week or so...

Well due to her circumstances of having two homes (I assume) you have to look at everything that is going on.

Is she ill? How often does she spend with you? What activities do you do with her? What is her routine with her mum? (Very important if she spends most of her time with her mum) Does she have a closed circle she mixes with or lots of different people? When she is grisly/crying is she complaining of anything in particular?

If I walked into my daughter or stepson's bedroom to find them on their knees, facing the wall and crying (especially if they spend a lot of time crying) I would be very concerned and immediately take them out of there and somewhere with a bit light and quiet. To be honest, especially if it were my DD, I would be taking her in with me for the night just to ensure she feels safe and can get some sleep. If it was DSS at the same age DH would have done the same.

At 21 months, she almost certainly still needs about 1-2 hours sleep in the daytime and at least 10 hours at night. As you have said she is damaging her health and development and it is imperative to get her sleep sorted out. Assuming her parents share the parenting, they abosltuely need to sort out a strict bedtime routine for her and stick to it whichever house she is in, and make sure she sleeps in the daytime, even if it involves driving her around for an hour a day for two weeks until she gets into the habit. Sleep deprivation can lead to long-term damage.

You could also try giving her Ashton's Powders, which is a chamomile derivative and is very good for painful teething. It may well be that she is cutting molars which are horribly painful. Ashton's don't work for all children but tbh it sounds as though she needs something to help tip her into sleep at the moment. It is not normal for a baby to stay awake for near on 20 hours. In fact tbh I'd be seeking medical help.

In answer to all the questions - apologise in advance if they sound short but just want you to get all info...

She's not ill, she spends a lot of time with me but she knows i sometimes go away at night (work nights), i do all sorts with her, because we know the sleep troubles we try to tire herself out by play all day, Her routine with her mum is exactly the same as with us, similar hassles except she takes less time at her mothers tonight. It is particularly bad because by the sounds of it, all she wants is me (this has being case all day - i just spoke soothingly down the phone to her and it calmed her for 5 minutes and then when she felt hereself going to sleep she jumped up and started to fight - she has black eyes from the tiredness and her face is swollen from crying! - she is not wanting her dad at all (screaming even worse when he goes nr her. She is complaining of nothing in particular just does not want to go to bed. We have tried her in our bed too, nothing - she will settle and then when she feels herself go, get herself up.

Her mother is trying to talk the whole thing down though saying it is just a phase but going in to see her facing a wall crying is disturbing (tonight is the worst by far) but there is a close second when she literally burnt herself out and fell asleep where she stood. We take her out from her room and go somewhere light and airy, try her on the beanbag (wh9ich generally works) tonight and a few nights have thrown routine ouit the window.

DP has even taken her out in her pushchair to see if that works - nothing, still crying! But the routine is so very very similar, tea, half hour chill out, bath, story and milk and bed. It is getting close to emergency medical help at the moment. it si not natural, it is damaging my whole life eg. relationship with DP (we have no time together) - her behavious during the day is causing this too - she ALWAYS has to have someone with her and will not just play for even 5 minutes and she will drag us by the hand to take us places, we have being firm but fair today but she has whined and cried all day today too - dont know why this) She is not teething either

really dont knwo what to do

Sounds like you have a lovely relationship with her. Poor little mite sounds in a pickle. She will no concentration span with sleep that is so disrupted. She would be a different child if she started sleeping properly. Can you impress on her father that she really needs intervention and get her parents to seek medical help or referral to a sleep clinic?

In a way she concentrates more on trying not to sleep than letting herself go to sleep - she will not be cradled or cuddled to sleep either.

A work colleague has just suggested ADHD - and with her behavious during the day - could this be the case.#

wrt medical help, we dont knw her doctorm, her mother wont tell, no HV at our end and she wont come out to see her as she wont travel so far or her mother wont even try (there is a strained relationship with BM) it needs to be done and DP needs to stress to bm that it is essential

I know toddlers are hard work but for the attention to be on her literally 24/7 is exhausting - me and and DP wil be having a little cuddle in the kitchen and every time we try she will stand between us and everythimng, she will whine, throw things and cry for no readson - actually squeezing tears

help, please, im actually begging

Bottom line is Innocent, she is still very, very little. She needs attention and kindness like any other baby animal. I'm intrigued by her screaming when you and DP have a hug. What you describe sounds to me untypical for a very young toddler. Has she witnessed domestic violence? She sounds fearful rather than willful. Does she live at her mother's most of the time?

And if you have any concerns about her health, you are perfectly entitled as her parent and step-parent (especially if you had any welfare concerns) to take her to your own GP as a visitor and try to access services through your surgery. You do not have to get her mother to do it.

My last question is: Does her mother have a new partner?

I know nothing - have one DD of 6 months but perhaps the controlled crying is part of the problem? The child had been through her parents separating and has to cope with 2 homes - this is hard. It is no one's fault, but it is hard. I would be very wary of using the ADHD label - it is extremely overused. It sounds like she is afraid of sleeping which makes sense if she is experiencing night terrors. Have you tried co-sleeping? It is not clear if you have just tried her in your bed (without you) or actually in with the two of you. Or perhaps taking the focus off sleep in the evenings and just cuddling on the sofa so she learns to relax?

Yes, she is with her mother 4-5 nights a week and with us 2-3, depends on work patterns. And no she has never witnessed an domestic violence, no violence in any houses (well she does have 3 brothers - so rough and tumble, thats about it)

Thats the thing, she gets love, kindness and attention, she gets sooooo mcuh of it from everyone, we use CC as one of the last resorts - after cuddling with her, after relaxing with her and reading with her (these things we can only try - she doesn't let us do that with her on an evening [during the day fine]) The attention she wants during the day now varies between dragging us around the house (she makes it clear that its only to move us - not to cuddle if that makes sense). AT night when cuddling, she will pretty much want to wriggle out, arch her back etc. She will not let herself relax which is where the problem lies. She will relax during the day for her nap.

Had thought of night terrors, but she sleeps through generally - only waking at 5am occassionally, so night terrors would cause her to wake up screaming etc. She always looks on a morning fresh and fine.

She never had to go through them seperating so has never had to change her routine as such. She was with DP solidly 5 months, but this arrangement has being the same for 15m. Her mother does not have a new partner.

That the thing, a tired child will sleep; she doesn't want to. when i got home at 9am, she was awake, she basically passed out at 4.30am and was awake at 6. She looked like she had being punched, she looked dreadful.

Everything said really is being taken on board but the whole situation seems so different to anything i have ever heard of before so its hard to get it all out on one post and easier to address individual points made.

It is affecting mine and DP's relationship. I have said that when DSD is next over i will stay at my parents if she will not sleep so he can just try and settle into a routine without me, just in case i am working as i was last night. I have said it is destroying us through lack of sleep but also lack of time spent together, even during the day - she does not give us 2 minutes and this is not an exageration, we do not have 2 minutes where she will entertain herself, we are not asking for hours - just 2 minutes for a cuddle. If she knows one of us are leaving the room, and hears a door closing behind us she will follow us into that room. I just want a quick hug and kiss occassionally but she stands, cries screams and creates there is a lot of knock on effects on our relationship. As well as the knock on for hewr health, it is not healthy.

Her mother is downplaying her need to go to HV so i really am gonna take matters into my own hands.

No sympathy having read your last post. SHe muust come first...so what if you and DP cant have a cuddle for two or three days out of 7! She's having to get used to two families! It's very normal for a child this age to not give you 2 minutes alone...they just dont!

And yes..following you is usual too.
The only people ho can decide about the HV is her Dad or her Mum...not you. You surely knew he had a child when you went with him?

She is coming first, wimple, but for the good of the whole household me and DP need to stay as a unit and this isnt happening... You may have read that we dont ask for it all the time, we ask for 2 minutes in a day when she is awake for a hug and a kiss. I am not asking for a 2 hour cuddle in front of the TV at 2pm. I am asking for an uninterrupted 2 minutes stood in the kitchen hugging with her pottering around or with her toys or watching TV etc. Rather than between our legs screaming shrilly! I did know he had her and i took all this on and i have taken a lot on. I live with DP, his brother, his recovering alcoholic mother and DSD when she is with us. This 2 minutes during the day, taken out of the day of running round, cleaning, tidying, running household, is it too much to ask?

And now i am being told two totally seperate things - do i or dont i need mothers permission to get her to HV/doctors? I would do everything with DP, her dad so it is not as if

I posted all this and tried to include as much information as i can, we are at our wits end and i am literally crying out for help and i felt i had to include the need for a 2 MINUTE hug during the day. I am soo so so sorry i am going on but tonight has being bad again, and i am at home tonight not work dealing with this. She has being awake since 11.50 this morning! even im struggling to stay awake

and wimple, me and DP work shifts and often opposite, these 2-3 days are the only days we see each other out of 7

SOrry if i sound so so so ungratefull for all this advice, it is just hard, im sure you know, guessing you are all parents yourselfs. in front of DSD we are coping, not letting anything show, i suppose i am getting it all out on here and its coming out all angry, and for that i am sorry

Well redhead that's what adult family life is like...many people dont see one another for days due to work...you DSD has her parents spilt in two...you have to suck it up.

Wimple - so rude, do you come to the sleep section, read people's problems and just tell them all to just suck it up?!

Innocent i'm sorry i don't really have any experince but i just wanted to say that you are not asking too much, not at all! You clearly need to get this sorted for all your sakes. I think approaching a sleep clinic may be your best bet as HV's are often crap at this kind of thing and i think it the situation needs specialist help. Your DSD sounds to be experiencing some kind of trauma and seem to have a fear of being left alone, perhaps why she won't sleep.

Good luck i hope you get the help you need soon x

suck it up? It doesn't matter now anyway, DSD mum has told her that her dad is dead, so we will not need to have to know how to get her to bed anymore

i could cry

thanks for advice tho

What was that last post?

Has the bm told baby her dad is dead? Is she refusing to let you see her? Only just seen your op, but you all seemed so close. What, if i've understood correctly, triggered this? The must have been a row about something? Was it you raising concerns over the sleep again. Obviously she can't do that and to tell a child their dad I'd dead is abusive. I really am totally unqualified to know what to do or say, but feel very shocked and alarmed and hope someone on here sees it and helps you.

Oh, and btw, the sleep issues are extremely difficult. My dd (4th dc) was, compared with the 1 ST 3, a terrible sleeper, but nothing, nothing compared with how difficult your dsd has been, and I was at my wits' end with it. It is seriously damaging to your sanity, peace of mind, harmony in the home, everything. sleep deprivation is crucifying :( I bet if you were bm, desperate for help, no one would tell you to " suck it up" .

I really hope someone can help you xxx

Tbh I was going to say I think things at mums end are not what they seem. You never know what could be being said to the child.

It sounds like seperation anxiety to me with a shit storer thrown in.

One thing that you could try is a self referal to a Family Outrearch Worker at your local Sure Start Childrens Centre. This would be to support you, dp and dsd, seperate from her mum. There is a reason she doesn't want to involve her hv. You said she's not as bad at her mums, could she even be fine there? The mix of shifts at yours could be adding but there's nothing you can do about that.

It is horrible, lack/interupted sleep is a torture method for a reason!!!!

yeah, thats what bm has told dsd. This is because we couldn't have her for the 3days, 2nights this week as on our days off when we usually have her, we are moving DPs mum out of her house out of a DV relationship.

posted for advice about it in stepparenting, the relationship between us and bm are not great at all. yet we found out she is that bad as we were getting phone calls at 2 in the morning to speak to her over phone because bm couldnt cope.

We will get her back home soon, bm will probably want a night out and want us to have her. We will look into family outreach worker, sounds great tbh.

sorry i sound so down atm, im sure you can understand. and i am at the end of a night shift too