4 year old keeps waking in the middle of the night - for hours

[Pootletrinket]

DD, now aged 4 (and 2 months), slept beautifully until 18 months old. Then started waking in the middle of the night. DH, a night owl, created bad habits by giving her milk to put her back to sleep - which it did for a while, then it would just wake her and she'd play for hours. We stopped the milk; then he started 'tickling her back' to get her back to sleep, which worked for a little while. Now, we have a child who goes to bed, generally quite well. But who wakes some time between 1 and 5 most nights (she's slept through 2 nights in last 20) and will most often then be awake for between 2 and 5 hours.

Several mornings, when she's been awake since 3am, I've taken her to nursery knowing she's not slept since then.

Have tried star charts, rewards, threats, negotiating, removing toys, being cross, being reasonable, ignoring, health visitor advice, GP advice (there was none) - nothing seems to work. Before Christmas, she got much better for 3 weeks, but we were all ill over Christmas and now it seems as bad as ever - not helped when I'm working full time and now almost 7 months pregnant.

I know she's tired and needs more sleep, but she seems to start physically and behaviourally waking herself (stretching, rubbing eyes) as soon as she wakes in the night. She tells me it's bad dreams, but I know when she's had a bad dream and generally, she hasn't.

Very often, she will play happily and quietly in her room, sometimes even in her bed with her imaginary friends, but I know she needs the sleep.

Last night, I was up 5 times in one hour - pretty sure she didn't go back to sleep at all and therefore has been up since 5 (but didn't settle last night until 9 and had dreadful sleep the preceeding 4 nights) - am really close to losing it and could do with some practical tips, please, as I'm all out of ideas and there seems to be no support.

TIA

What happens during the day? Is she sleeping a lot at nursery?

No, she doesn't sleep at all during the day, stopped that around 2 years ago to try and solve this problem! She will, very occasionally, and if very tired, have half an hour on a drive or fall asleep during a TV programme, but we try not to allow this for more than just a cat nap.

And what time does she go to bed at night? How many hours sleep is she typically getting per 24 hours in total?

We put her to bed around 7 - 7.30. She sometimes goes straight out, sometimes messes about until 9. Typically, she gets just over 8 hours per night (but can be as little as 6 and can also be broken sleep, which always makes me feel worse), which I just don't think is enough given her age and the amount of pre-school she does.

Our HV said that she might develop ADHD if she gets less than 9 routinely (not that I subscribe to ADHD) but GP has no concerns about her ability to focus; concentrate; play creatively on her own etc.

You're right that it's not enough sleep at that age. Is there anything that could be overstimulating her? (Thinking out loud here so please don't take offence) Food choices? e.g. Rich foods like cheese can disturb sleep.. whereas the combination of lactose and carbohydrate (like a biscuit/toast and a milky drink) is sleep-inducing. Physical activity prior to bed-time? TV? Noise/light from outside/inside the house?

My son at the same age would become very agitated in his sleep if he hadn't emptied his bladder properly before bedtime. Ditto if his duvet slipped off and there was skin exposed to the cold. And there's also 'habit' to contend with as well. Incredibly easy for children to get into a habit of waking at a particular time for no real reason.

I also wonder if the lack of sleep during the day could lead to a 'wired' effect later on in the day. But a difficult one to reinstate given that presumably she'll be off to school shortly

Don't know if any of that helps.

No offence taken at all!! am grateful that you've taken the time to reply and really desperate!

We tend to try and make sure she's eaten at least an hour before bedtime; she generally doesn't have a drink before bed as she wants out of nappies (and the main reason she isn't at night is because of this sleep). We get her to sit on the toilet before the nappy goes on so she does a wee; we tiptoe in before we each go to bed (DH nightowl, I'm not) to check she's covered up.

Will try and bring dinner forwards a bit and maybe make the TV go off sooner - don't think there's too much dashing about before bed, but can look at it again.

Bedtime routine involves teeth, cuddle, stories, lights go out apart from landing light (which she insists stays on with door ajar) - she's away from the neighbours which is the noisier end of the house and tends to wake when we're both asleep so other noise would be reduced.

I agree, she seems wired at times and cranky, but she will be going to school in September and won't sleep in the day if we ask her to anyway.

Can't offer any solutions I'm afraid, but would be really interested in tips from others. Have an almost 3 year old who is doing something similar. If it's any consolation, you are not alone x

Can't offer any solutions I'm afraid, but would be really interested in tips from others. Have an almost 3 year old who is doing something similar. If it's any consolation, you are not alone x

Something you could try if she won't sleep during the day is introducing a half hour 'quiet time' in the afternoon. Stretched on the sofa under a blanket quietly, listening to music or looking at a book can be enough to rest the mind even though it's not actual sleep.

Another idea - not quite in the 'straw clutching' category but close - is to get herbs on your side. :) Lavender oil, for example, in the bath and a few drops on the pillow. Camomile is a really good natural sedative. You could try an infusion of camomile sweetened with honey administered on a spoon - can work on a psychological level as a 'magic sleeping potion' as well. I would also try the hot milk and biscuit route.... I know she's trying to get out of nappies but malted/milky drinks are very soothing and worth a few wet nappies.

Will think some more.

Thank you - the 'medicine' route won't work as she won't take anything from a spoon (I have to hide disprol in drinks!) but I will try some of the others. I know nursery has quiet time after lunch, but will definitely try the lavender - I have a vapouriser I could use!!!

Hi

My friend bought their DS with similar one of those cuddly rabbit alarm clocks set it for 7am and told their DS that unless bunny rings the wake up bell it is still night-time and children should be asleep. He was keener to follow bunny's requests than mum's and generally it was successful although he would wake at 6am and read in bed til bunny let rip! Just an idea.