Sleep still erratic at 4.5 months!

[Bumperrlicious]

Dd2 is 18 weeks and her sleep is still erratic. It's hit and miss as to whether she will settle in the evenings but she will eventually settle between 10.30 & 12. If she has slept through the evening I might dream feed her.

Last night she went down at 10.30 work 12.30, 4.30 & 6am. Night before 2.30 & 5.30 for an hour and a half. Before that it has usually been between 3 & 4 and 6 & 7. She's over four months, shouldn't we be getting some sort of pattern by now? Shouldn't she be going longer by now? The galling thing is from 5 weeks to 9 weeks she slept 12.30-7.30. That is just a distant memory now! I don't know what to do for the best and I'm knackered.

don't forget the 4month sleep regression though bumper. I didn't actually think this would affect us as DS woke up every 2 hours for a feed. This has improved a lot, he regularly does 12 - 5 or 6 without a feed now. But he wakes ever 45 mins or so. great.

I have no idea what to do either. I lie and pat his chest till he drops back off and then wait for him to wake up again. It must end at some point?

Totally normal I'm afraid.

DD didn't start sleeping through (sometimes) until 9 months.

I found bringing DS into bed with me made him sleep better in the night and about an hour longer most mornings.

(He wasn't in bed with us at first as DP was worried he'd squash him)

Ah bumper, much much empathy and sympathy from the house of ill sleep. I know it's tough, but she's still very little and some babies just aren't good sleepers (although that probably isn't what you want to hear).

DS1 and DD are and always have been great. DS2, not so great; it took nearly two years before he was reliably sleeping all night, although when I say all night, it's in the loosest possible sense of the word as he is a VERY early riser.

ps, what's with the extra rrrr?

Thanks all. I don't know if it is more helpful or not to know it is normal. Day time sleeps are a real bugger too. If she doesn't get a morning nap I spend literally the rest off the day trying to get her to sleep. It's making me miserable and very wearing. Would I be mad to consider a dummy this late in the game?

Hi daisy :). Hope you are all well. Are you still in touch with Jammy? She left me a message on a thread & I never replied & not sure what her current username is.

definfitely try a dummy! DS has only started taking one, but it's really helpful getting him back to sleep with.

No, 18 weeks is bang in the middle of the regression to newborn hell. It's a tough stage.

Developmentally what is happening is that your baby isn't feeding properly in the daytime because she has suddenly discovered her arms are under her control, mummy and daddy are the best things in the whole world to watch, the tv, the carpet, the siren outside, the wallpaper. Not a chance that she pay attention to eating when that is all going on, so she'll just grap quick snacks and catch up at night when everything is switched off and it is boring.

Also, the developmental spurt uses energy and calories which increases her hunger anyway.

Try to feed her lots during the day and offer more feeds than you normally would. Perhaps choose a boring place to do at least some of them.

Don't use a dummy as this will interfere with the demand and supply relationship, potentially make things worse and be hard to get rid of later.

Do go to bed earlier and try to get a couple of hours whilst someone else takes the baby so that you start the night with 2 hours under your belt.

It might seem like it, but it won't last for very long. The good news for sure is that often once through this bit, a much better sleep pattern begins and you can all sigh in relief.

Cosmosis I thought you said on the other thread today that your 4 month old didn't wake due to hunger? Make up your mind and don't please base your advice on anetdotal stories. They are helpful in that empathy and understanding is, but not because you have a chip on your shoulder because someone appears to have come in on your patch.

I did. If you read my post, I said he was waking every 3 hours for a feed befrore the 4mth regression, when he was 12 or 13 weeks. I didn't specify age to Bumper as she knows this from another thread - I have already said to her before that I didn't think we'd notice the regression if it came. He got to about 16 weeks and was going longer between feeds, regularly sleeping 10.30 - 3, then the regression hit, and no, he's not waking due to hunger as the first thing I did was try feeding him. He fell asleep before the let down, every time, so I stopped offering.

I don't at all have a chip on my shoulder! I would love someone to "come in on my patch" and help me out as I'm exhausted and am looking for advice, that's why we all post isn't it?

Bumper and Cosmosis, we meet again! DS is 18 wks today and his sleep is still crap. Would go on but haven't got the energy! Sending you both lots of sympathy and sleepy vibes.

StartingAfresh, your second post was a bit odd ... let's play nicely, we're all knackered here ... your first post was useful though. DS is so distracted during his daytime feeds at the moment and spends most of them staring up at me or scratching/bashing at my boobs ...

Bumperrlicious what happens if you simply let her stay awake until she drops off, rather than spending ages trying to get her to sleep?

We didn't attempt to impose any routine on DS - we simply let him sleep in his moses basket when he needed to in the day with lights on, stuff going on around him. He usually fell asleep after a feed. And then when he slept at night we put him down in the bedroom (lights off and quiet - so as to differentiate between night and day). After a while he fell into a routine of sleeping longer at night without us even trying.

That and we let him co-sleep with us eventually (which extended his night time sleeping as I said before).

FWIW I stayed a bit at my MILs, and when there I felt pressured to put DS to bed at a certain time, which I tried and found myself spending ages battling with him, trying to get him to go to sleep, which was completely frustrating and a complete waste of time IMO.

As he got older we eased into a routine, until he did get a set bedtime, when it felt right.

I appreciate this only works with DC who don't get immensely grumpy if they don't have a nap at a certain time. However I think it's worth mentioning that while they're very young, it really can help to just go with the flow, rather than trying to impose a routine too early - if that suits you and your DC.

HTH

threefeet the thing is that some babies just don't drop off on their own. My DS is wide awake after feeds. He even has trouble falling asleep in the pram and the car - very weird and it makes life very difficult. It's not at all about imposing a routine - it's all about survival with babies like this. V hard to imagine if you haven't had a baby like this but that's what my DS is like, and Cosmosis's DS, and Bumper's DD. Going with the flow results in hours of inconsolable screaming - I know, I've tried it ... :)

"the thing is that some babies just don't drop off on their own" sorry I hope my post didn't come across as if I was saying that.

"Drop off" was probably the wrong word. My DS goes to sleep after feeding.

I completely agree that going with the flow won't work for everyone. Some babies just won't have it, and IMO it's not got a lot to do with to do with how you parent - different babies are just different.

Friends of mine has a very easy first baby - would sleep anywhere with lights, music etc. They suspected it was because of how they parented. However their DC2 is a screamer, who won't sleep without an awful lot of effort from the adults, and then wakes up at the slightest thing.

Also, from my own experience, DS only sleeps after feeding. People who do have a baby who will just drop off when you put them in their cot don't understand this - "why don't you just put him down" being one of the least helpful and most annoying comments! Some people simply don't understand that just because it works for them, it doesn't mean it will work for you! (These babies do exist by the way, my friend has got one. I was amazed! She goes in the cot, gurgles, looks at stuff and simply happily drifts off! I was )

Sorry going off on a rant here!

I posted my experience though as I know some of my ante-natal friends felt enormous pressure to conform to a schedule / routine, and this was driven (it seemed to me) by trying to conform to parenting manuals (GF etc) and external expectations to a large extent. I just wanted to check that she hadn't tried it. If you've got a screamer though, it won't work!

"why don't you just put him down" - oh god yes, I am so with you on that one! That, along with any sentence including the words 'rod' and 'back' ...

My cousin has one of those 'dump-and-run' babies. She just plonks him in the cot and leaves the room. I agree, people who have babies like that just don't understand what all the fuss is about!

I definitely have a screamer. And looking after him is the hardest work I've ever done in my life. He is lush though

No people who have babies like that often think it is because they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong!

Oh yes, that's true!! Good point Cosmosis :)

I wish i was doing somethimg wrong then i coul fix it! soory, feeding.

Sorry, I seem to have parallel threads talking about the same thing!

Threefeet if I leave her she will get crabby. Very occasionally I have left her e.g. in her car seat thinking I'll get her out in a minute and she will miraculously go off to sleep, but that is rare.

Recently I went to a friends house for a birthday party and forgot my sling. DD was due a nap, fell asleep in the car but it wasn't long enough for her to stay asleep. She was hysterical for most of the three hours except the 20 mins I managed to get her to feed to sleep then put her down. Then back to the screaming.

We are not in a routine, quite the opposite really, in fact I can't help but feel that if I did a GF routine it might all be better, though I don't really believe that, but the books (even though I don't read them, I know enough about them from on here) just make me feel that way.

I started putting her down in the evenings to try and get some time to myself. Some people suggested trying to put her down early, e.g. 6.30pm, however it doesn't seem to matter what time I start she never goes down before 8.30, then it is hit and miss as to whether she will transfer to her hammock and/or stay down.

She used to cluster feed all evening which was a pain but then she slept 7.5 hours which was worth it, but she doesn't seem to do that any more, and if she is too tired she won't even feed properly, just screams when I try to latch her on.

I know it will all pass but I just feel a bit miserable about it atm, just feel as if I am not really enjoying maternity leave. The difference in how I feel when she has had good sleeps (both day and night) compared to when she hasn't is massive. I could easily fail a PND test on a bad day, but be fine on a good day. It's all about the sleep!

Oh and after the night before waking 10.30 work 12.30, 4.30 & 6am last night she went down at 11 and woke at 4.30 then slept till I had to wake her at 8. Didn't do anything different in the evening.

Just had to say Bumperrlicious your comment about not enjoying mat leave and failing a PND test on a bad day but being fine on a good day is exactly how I feel!

I've been reading these threads avidly as DS (11 weeks) doesn't sleep well and I am desperate!

During the day he naps for up to 40 mins but that's it, its very hard to get him to go longer but on the odd occasions he has done he is so much happier when he wakes up. He sleeps best in his swing but I worry that he will rely on it and when he is too big for it what will I do then!!!

On an evening I take him up to bed between 6-7pm and he usually is asleep after a bottle quite quickly so I am at least getting an hour or 2 with DS1 who is 6 - huge improvement on a few weeks ago where we had screaming all evening and I hardly saw my 6 year old, if I did see him I was usually crying!

So he sleeps til maybe midnight if we're lucky then wakes and I feed him but after that I am up and down like a yo-yo. He seems to have wind as he isn't hungry, just makes straining noises and writhes around. He is in his own room but I have put him in bed with us when desperate but he still doesn't settle.

He is a big boy (15lb) and my most hated comment when people look in the pram at him is "ooh he's a bi lad, I bet he sleeps through" argh. I have started telling strangers he does just to shut them up!

He has just slept for 20 mins in his car seat then started writhing about etc so I got him out thinking he may have wind but nothing came up so put him in the swing and he seems to be asleep again for a while. If he doesn't sleep much this afternoon he will be very miserable later on - joy!

I find it so hard when my DS1 is home from school if DS2 is grumpy, just hope he carries on going to sleep OK at 7pm ish!

Interesting Bumper that you did nothing different but your DD slept so differently!