Please help - wee ones won't sleep and marriage on rocks.

[Slickbird]

I am so desperate. Please can someone give me advice? I have three children, eldest is nearly 10 - she's great, never had any sleep problems with her, our two youngest are 3.4 (DD2) and nearly 22months (DS) and I can count on one hand how many nights sleep we've had since the 3 year old was born.

The problem is that there has been one issue with them after another - it used to be a dummy prob for DD2, so we put her through cold turkey which was hellish. Then she developed night terrors which were absolutely horrendous and lasted a year and a half (still gets them when she's ill). Then DS came along (not planned, but love him to bits) so no sleep there again, and of course between them (apart from waking each other up) there's been constant teething, constant illnesses, stopping sucking thumb due to ulcers in mouth with illness and then losing the ability to self soothe - that was last summer. We did have been doing controlled crying but it is JUST NOT WORKING. I don't know where we are going wrong.

I now think that DS has separation anxiety and for the last two months things have been even worse, really ALL night screaming. He has had a lot of colds and viruses etc, but outwith that....

They both go down fine (share a room - no choice) and we have the same routine every night, all the literature on this, we are doing the right thing, but it's just not working. I'm so run down I get every cold they have, my DS and I are seriously on the verge of a divorce and I just feel that no one will help us. I've spoken to the health visitor and she just keeps giving me books which tells me we are doing the right thing.

What are we doing wrong?? When will it get better, I am so desperate I'm in tears.

This might sound a little 'left field' but do you have relatives (grandparents?) that would be willing to babysit for a weekend? Give you a break? If you're all wound up, anxious and your relationship is struggling I think children sense it and this makes matters worse. Conscious that going away for a weekend might not be what a child with separation anxiety needs... but I doubt you could make it worse and your marriage and your state of mind are two things that desperately need a boost.

I'm sure it will get better eventually but, as a single parent, I know that the occasions when I could take some time out and recharge the batteries were very precious and something of a life-saver.

Sorry I've got to run out door now to collect eldest from school, but I'll come back to your reply later on - thanks for responding.

Hi- so when you say they go down fine- what do you mean? do they go to sleep and then wake up throughout the night? When they go to sleep how do they go to sleep? Do you tuck hem up and leave the room and they fall asleep without you? do they sleep with a night-light?tape on? tv on?

Got five mins just now - we have a routine with both the wee ones where they get into their jammies, play for a little bit, have supper & milk, brush teeth, have story, into bed, lights out (light in hall - this has varied in terms of which light and may hve to look at again to keep it more consistant) and kiss them both goodnight and then leave the room. The door is left partially open because of DD2 who insists on it. If it were me, the door would be shut.

They usually both go to sleep fine. It's staying asleep is the big problem and can vary whether it's all evening after an hour and a half of going to sleep, to waking up really late and going partially through the night or at worst - all night.

I have read that it's important to have everything the same as when they first went to sleep so I'm thinking of using the night light in the hall from bedtime - although DD2 complains it's too dark. I have managed to get her to accept it sometimes tho. I think if we are not being consistant enough it's prob with the light in the hall, which I will start with from tonight.

In terms of what we do when we go through when DS is crying - we usually leave him 5 mins to see if he will go back himself, and if not, we go through, put a hand on him, don't say anything and (checking he's ok) leave.

Then we leave him again for another 20 mins. This can go on and we leave him longer each time.

The worst thing is there has been so many different reasons for his disturbed sleep (illness, teething etc) that it has been really hard to treat as it's not one problem we are tackling.

Any thoughts?

Sorry so long.

It's horrid right.

Are you still sick yourself? Or very rundown? Could i suggest you try and get better before you sort thier sleep out?
You may then have he energy to do so.

How about cosleeping with one of them untill thier sleep gets better?

Does your Dh help out in the nights?

Hi Chil.

My mum kinda offered today to sleep here and we could go to her house sometime, but because there's three of them and two of them so little, it's a big ask. She did take DD2 last weekend for the first time for two nights so we could tackle DS's crying and in a way I realised we are more anxious about tending him when she's there in case he wakes her up. Which I believe he will prob pick up on. DD2had night terrors at mum's both nights. (She was recovering from a chesty cold tho). I'm a big believer in getting breaks when you can too. I just feel this is gone on for so long now, I need a fix for the actual problem. Hats off to you doing it single-handedly.

Hi Lovemy

Yes I'm ill with a cold just now, but that is becoming a constant - cos of the no sleep at night time. I'm not being funny, but if I waited for my health to improve, I'd never tackle it. It's a vicious circle in that respect.

I haven't ever done the co-sleeping thing as I didn't want to end up with a situation where we couldn't get them to sleep in their own bed. Still, they're not sleeping in their own bed anyway, but that's always been a no-no for us!

Yes, DH does his share too - that's why we are both so exhausted. Our house isn't that big so even if we were taking turns we are both kept awake as they are so loud. Although in saying that, DH does sleep through far more of it than I do and we have to sleep in separate beds constantly as he snores. But that's another marriage breaking issue....

I have put them down tonight with the night-light in the hall which will be the same now as when either (but most likely him) wakes up later. Will keep trying that for the consistancy.

Ok this might seem daft but any chance of putting your DD2 in with her big sister. Might help with the night terrors and the DS might sleep more peacefully on his own. I only say this because I was 10 when my younger sister was born and once she was a toddler she came into my room and I didnt mind at all. She would get into bed with me if she woke up and it didnt disturb my sleep, I quite liked it and we are still really close now we are grown up! Maybe a crazy idea but just thought I would mention it.

Also you should def take your mum up on her offer to stay over. A friend of mine with a bad sleeping son recetntly went away for weekend leaving him with her mum and the son slept through both nights! She was shocked! Anyway sure your mum would gladly put up with the bad sleep for a couple of nights to give you a break as it sounds like you really need it! Hope things improve and someone with more experience in these things comes along and gives you some better advice than mine

Hi Goodname,

Thanks for responding. We did try something like that before - My eldest DD's room is too small to have anyone in with her, but when DD2 was at her worst with the night terrors we put her in DD1's room and DD1 moved in with DS. The thing was it was such an upheaval trying to move all her stuff (it took a bit of persuading esp as she had just had her room done) and it just didn't work. DD2 still had night terrors and DS kept DD1 awake! I guess at least this way, DD1 is getting sleep! I also feel that because of the age gap and the amount she helps out, it's important that DD1 has her own space to get away from them.

Having said all that, last night was a good night! DS only woke at 10pm kicking and screaming and I kept the light off in the hall (just the nightlight) and went in to put my hand on his back and it settled him. He slept til 7am!!! DD2 was up at 5am instead tho - Boo hiss. So I didn't get much from then but good for DS. I think what has not been helping is the weather and how little the wee ones have been able to get out and get fresh air.

Yesterday I managed to walk them to the park at mums and it seemed to help!