Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Sleep

Join our Sleep forum for tips on creating a sleep routine for your baby or toddler. Need more advice on your childs development? Sign up to our Ages and Stages newsletter here.

What is this bloody squirming about?! Arrgh

29 replies

narmada · 13/01/2011 10:33

Just looking for fresh ideas, as have run out of them myself.

My DD 12 weeks (formula fed) is a terrible sleep-fighter in the day, prone to horrific overtiredness and overstimulation (I think). He is also been treated for reflux by the paed (posted about this elsewhere).

When he is trying to get to sleep he burrows and shuffles and squirms endlessly in my arms, sort of turning his head from side to side to side, until he finally, hopefully drops off. Usually for half an hour. There is NO WAY on god's earth that he will go down in his cot during the day unless he is deeply asleep where he will again only sleep for one sleep cycle before waking up still tired but unable to sleep. He cannot self settle at all. Bless him, he is not nice to cuddle, more like wrestling a hyperactive octopus to sleep. He also does the squirming and head-side-to-side thing when he comes into a light sleep cycle if he's still in my arms.

I have just about accepted that he will only really sleep in my arms or in the pram during the day, but this squirming is driving me nuts.

Has anyone else experienced this or have any ideas why he is doing it? I have to now just put it down to the reflux but this seems to be better controlled now he is on a stronger medication.

OP posts:
narmada · 13/01/2011 10:34

He has a dummy, by the way, can't settle without it, but does the squirming-shuffling thing even when the dummy is plugged in so he's not rooting for something to suck on.

OP posts:
CabbagefromaBaby · 13/01/2011 10:37

Have you tried an osteopath?

Some babies benefit from having their little heads and spines manipulated a bit.

Something to do with being squashed a bit during labour, or something I think?

narmada · 13/01/2011 10:39

Not gone to an osteopath and to be honest am a bit nervous about it - he is about to start physio because he has poor head control of (as yet) unknown origin as well as some poor muscle tone in his arms.

Thanks for the idea though.

OP posts:
narmada · 13/01/2011 16:55

Bump - Any ideas what might be causing this, anyone??!!

OP posts:
Dreemagurl · 13/01/2011 17:07

Not sure what's causing it but my 11 week DD is just the same! Only naps for 1 sleep cycle and has to be rocked to sleep (with lots of the head burrowing and squirming). She doesn't have reflux (I think - mentioned it to GP/HV a couple of times and was brushed aside) but is quite windy so not sure if that's an issue. She's also teething at the moment - could yours be? Check for excess dribble, fist chewing and smelly urine.
Mine has a dummy too - isn't it annoying when they're borrowing and squirming and then knock the dummy out and then squinny about it... Ah the joys. My LO has been asleep on me for nearly 2 hours after not napping for longer than 30 mins today. I know this is getting them into bad habits but what else are you to do when they won't sleep otherwise?
Sorry I'm not much help but I feel your pain narmada

narmada · 13/01/2011 17:42

oh dreemamgurl, it is kind of nice to know my DS is not the only one to do this -it's so strange. I don't think it's teeth - certainly no sign of any imminent eruptions. It is really annoying when they knock the dummy out - agreed.

I let my first DD nap on me -she was also a terrible napper, but I just cannot do that with a second child. extensive slinging is out of the question too because I had SPD in pregnancy and it is still bothering me.

Arrrrrrrrrghhhh!

OP posts:
Dreemagurl · 13/01/2011 21:45

We took ours to a Cranial Osteopath and it did seem to make a difference, for what it's worth.

Do you swaddle? DD sleeps much better and wriggles less if tightly swaddled.

I feel for you especially with your SPD. Hope things get better soon :)

PortiaPony · 13/01/2011 22:33

My DD does this, she also has reflux. With her it's a sign of discomfort that usually ends with wind coming out either up or down. Also agree with the swaddling. Sorry for abrupt msg, on phone :)

narmada · 14/01/2011 10:30

Maybe we should try the cranial osteopath. I will try anything at this stage. I do swaddle him for naps but it seems to make no difference - he is up again in 25 minutes or less.

Portia, how old is your DD? is she on meds for the reflux? Our DS is now on lansoprazole, it's only been 4 days or so but no discernible difference :(

OP posts:
HouseOfBamboo · 14/01/2011 10:36

Don't know if it's caused by anything in particular, but my DD has always done the wriggling, fussing and thrashing when dropping off to sleep, and she's now four! She was always an okay sleeper though so maybe the two things aren't related. She was never the sort of baby you could rock to sleep in your arms, she had to be somewhere she was free to thrash!

Maybe some babies are just squirmers.

LooL00 · 14/01/2011 10:49

DC3(6m) does the squirming thing when i put her down to sleep. To me it's now a positive thing as she's trying to get to sleep, if i don't hear her squirming about when I put her back after a night feed then we're in for a wakeful night.

HouseOfBamboo · 14/01/2011 11:03

Might it be worth persisting with trying to get him self settle in his cot - it could be that when you are putting him down asleep he senses that he has been put down and wakes up? Just an idea. When DD was about that age I used to plonk her in a darkened room in her moses basket quite a lot, even when it wasn't nap time, just to get her to relax if she was grouchy and overstimulated. Hope you find something that works soon.

xMrsSx · 14/01/2011 11:07

DS (10 weeks) does this too and your description of wrestling an octopus is brilliant. He seems to be finding it easier to settle himself though if I swaddle and put him down in the moses basket as soon as I see the first sign of tiredness. Although he has only done this about 4 times so far so who knows if it will last. He also has a dummy and does moan and groan for about 10 mins before dropping off. Fingers crossed he doesnt wake after his first sleep cycle (45 mins)... he has 10 mins left! Smile

LooL00 · 14/01/2011 12:34

Congrats on the birth of your DS xMrsSx !!

narmada · 14/01/2011 17:06

Thanks everyone for posting.

DS is currently lying on the sofa after wrestling in my arms for a good half an hour to no avail. He dropped off for five minutes only to wrestle and squirm himself awake again. I have had to put him down, I can take it no more! It's not just a bit of squirming, he alternates between crunching himself up into a ball and stretching out, rubbing his head wildly from side to side, batting his ears: honestly, he looks completely bonkers!

houseofbamboo I do keep trying to get him to settle in his moses basket but to stand any chance of success I have to: catch him just right, e.g., as soon as he is tired; hold the dummy in place and place my arm on him until he is very deeply asleep; swaddle him. But even then he will only nap for 30 minutes max. It is utterly frustrating.

If I try to leave him to it to really self-settle, he just lies there making a range of increasingly hysterical sounds (not necessarily crying) ranging from squeals to shrieks - I think he could go on for hours and hours like that. Eventually it turns into crying.

I am at my wits' end with him today.

OP posts:
pleasethanks · 14/01/2011 21:11

My daughter used to do this too - I found it odd. She only used to sleep in my arms for naps, but after the wriggling about and thrashing of head. With a few weeks of perserving she now naps in her bed and often self settles.........so there is hope

CharlotteBronteSaurus · 14/01/2011 21:20

11 week old dd2 does this - almost like she is trying burrow into me. i have to keep her nails really short otherwise she scratches me the shreds. no idea what it's about, although she is a very farty baby, so wondered about wind. we swaddle, but she will still wake up on hitting the moses basket nine times out of ten, and wake after 30 mins otherwise.

ifaistos · 15/01/2011 00:46

My 2 dc do/did this, particularly the first. The head burrowing is reallly weird I've no idea what that's about. Holding baby facing out and pacing seemed to calm her down when she did that. Holding my hands over her firmly seemed to help the thrashing as soon as I'd put her down. I sometimes even slept like that.

narmada · 15/01/2011 15:28

pleasethanks when you say persevering, how did you get her to do it? Can you explain step-by-step>??!!

OP posts:
narmada · 15/01/2011 16:21

PS charlotte I know what you mean about the nails. And also the fartiness. And the 30 minute naps. Oh so hard to get them down and then up again....oh so soon!
ifaistos I will try the facing out thing - I have had my fill of pacing, but guessing a little bit more may be necessary. Arrrrrrrrrrrgh.

OP posts:
narmada · 15/01/2011 17:12

and..... just when you think you know them so well, they go and do something surprising. Put DS down in cot asleep about an hour a go in a newly totally blacked-out room (I feel faintly ridiculous going to such lengths but ...), with a loud fan going on maxi and he is still asleep Shock. I know better than to think it definitely will work next time tho Grin.

OP posts:
CharlotteBronteSaurus · 15/01/2011 17:42

ah, never mind next time. rejoice in the present!

narmada · 15/01/2011 17:46

That is exactly what I'm doing. DD is out with dad swimming, so I am sitting here waiting for them to bring back fish and chips on their way home. That counts as bliss in my book!

OP posts:
pleasethanks · 15/01/2011 20:35

Narmada Okay, bear in mind what has worked for my wee one, may not work for yours, but I think when things are terrible, it is worth a shot. I should say that my DD is a good night sleeper and has been since about 8 weeks old (now 18 weeks) so that gave me real hope that we could eventually break naps. We made real progress about 5 weeks ago, but before then day time was hellish. She was constantly overtired and would go for about 4 or 5 hours with no sleep. Up until 10 weeks she had napped in her cot about twice, other than that it was a moving buggy (no parking up and having a coffee for me) or on me (but after a while that become a real effort with protracted wriggling). I could not go on, I was shattered and worn out and beginning to resent her.

The advice I was given was to get her to sleep at the same time everyday, be that in the buggy, car, on me, in bed etc for a week or two and her body clock would start to adjust and she would expect the sleeps at those times and that would make it easier to sleep in her bed. And it has worked, I can barely believe it. I am aware it may go tits up at any point, but at least I have had 5 good weeks. She is now a total joy to be with and I love being a mum, words I am not sure I ever thought I would utter. Yes, it has involved a bit of a routine, not something I ever thought I would do, but it has saved my sanity and to be honest now that she is used to napping (and likes her naps) we can be flexible with it. But I will not allow her to go for more than 2 hours without a sleep. It all goes to bat shit if I do. But to be honest, her clock seems set that way now

Getting her used to sleeping at the same time everyday was tough, but it was worth it. I used to have to pace the hall in the dark with her in the sling for an hour or walk about in the rain/snow with the buggy for 2 hours every day, but we got there. I can hardly believe it.

As I said, she is 18 weeks and this is roughly how it goes (but obviously a bit flexible depending on what we are doing);

I now get her up at roughly the same time every day, between 7 and 730.

She goes back down for a nap about 830-9ish, she normally takes an hour or an hour and a half (depends on what we are doing)

Big nap between 1-3.30sih

Cat nap of about 15-30mins at some point between 430 and 530

630, bath, feed and bed, usually all settled by 730pm

So, she naps in her basket, where she sleeps at night. I have the room kitted out with black out blinds and they basically stay on 24 hours a day. for her naps I follow a little bit of the same routine as night time. Yes, okay I sometimes feed to sleep, but frankly I will deal with any 'rods' if and when I need to. So the 'nap routine';

  • When I think she is getting tired, I pop her onto the mat and let her chill out (generally 2 hours after last sleep, except morning, which is much shorter awake window)
  • Take her into the bedroom (baby einstein lullaby music on and low lights) and pop her into sleeping bag
  • Feed her (bottle). Sometimes she take a lot, sometimes she does not want any
  • Sometimes she dozes on the bottle and if she does, I wait until the sucks are VERY spaced out, take it out and pop her into bed
  • If she doesn't doze on the bottle, does not want to feed, I just stick her into the bed
  • I have a wee womb noise bear and that goes on as soon as she goes into bed (it lasts 5 mins)
  • RETREAT

She sometimes, warbles, cries, but I leave her for 3 mins to see (unless she is hysterical). If she does not settle, I go back in, get her out of bed, offer her the bottle (repeat as above). if she wakes after one cycle when I know she needs more sleep, I go in and offer the bottle again. She will sometimes take one suck, and doze again. Often she will cry out between a cycle, but will settle herself back down

Okay, essay over, Hope this helps a little!

narmada · 15/01/2011 20:54

wow, pleasethanks, that is really detailed and very very helpful. I suspect that my DS is also a creature of routine and so I am going to try your approach. I think it's a really good idea to crack the overtiredness by getting them to nap any which way you can for a few weeks and get them into a routine. I had been thinking along similar lines to that to be honest.

My DS is also not bad at night (compared to how his big sister was as a babe) - e.g., he does generally sleep between the hours of 11 and 7 with one feed and lots of settling after, but at least he does know it's night time then. The evenings are very hit and miss and generally he won't be put down in his cot before about 11 when he's really exhausted but hoping that might change at some point Hmm.

anyway, I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks so much again.

OP posts: