Advice please with my sleep

[lovemy2babies]

I feel like iam losing the plot and I would like some advice on how to get back to feeling normal.

I think I'm suffering from some sort of insomnia, my 2 dc wake in the night 2 year old for reassurance and 7 month old for 1 feed at 2am -ish and they are both ready to start the day at 6am.

At the moment I can't sleep until gone midnight and then when the baby wakes at 2ish I can't sleep till 4am-ish.

I'm going crazy. I feel like I'm ill. I feel like I hate everything and everybody and am having some very negative thoughts about hurting the children.

I don't know what to do.

Can anyone recommend vitamins or diet?
I find if I sleep during the day then I can't sleep at a proper hour.
Dh has resorted to sleeping on the sofa (the sod) due to migraines so doesn't help.

Thanks in advance

Only speaking from personal experience here, but for me the worst thing is expecting to be woken up.

Other than reassurance, is there a reason why your 2yo wakes? What time are you going to bed?

Believe me, I know exactly what sleep deprivation does to you (we had a 4:30am waker for 6 months )

First of all I would introduce a MASSIVE dream feed for the 7mo at about 10:30pm, then go to bed yourself. Hopefully this will irradicate the 2am wake (which is the worst time, as far as I;m concerned)

Second, i would make sure your older child is safe, secure, happy and dosed up with neurofen (for 1 night) to make sure it isn't teeth-related)

3rd - Wine is a great sleep aid - just have a glass at 9pm, go to bed, chill out.

x

2 nights a week, go to bed at the same time as the DCs. It's a killer for your social/love life, but then so is exhaustion. Aside from this, do everything Jareth suggests

I had terrible insomnia after both my DS's were born. There's an ongoing thread on the mental health board for fellow insomniacs which has very friendly people on it who will know exactly what you're going through.

The best advice I can give you is that it will pass and in the mean time try some distraction techniques every time you find yourself worrying about your sleep. My favourites (which I still use) are naming everything I can see in front of me (in my head of course, not out loud) or alternatively the colours of anything I can see. It sounds carzy but it stops your brain from getting anxious about the sleep as it's concentrating on something else. That in turn reduces your heart rate which relaxes your body.

many sympathies, i have to admit that i took night nurse for a couple of weeks (half the actual dose) but it allowed me to switch off and go to sleep.

Also useful is bach's rescue remedy sleep spray, it stops repetitive thoughs and worries, certainly helped turn my mind off :)

Controlled crying for the 2 year old - it's a killer, but it really does work, after a week, you should get no more interruptions on that front. What Jareth said for the 7 mo. Speak to your health visitor/doc about the 2am feed, if they feel it's unnecessary, then controlled crying for that 1 too. I know it's harsh, but you need your sanity. Happy mummy = happy children. Good luck. Ps the above worked for me. ds1 was awake half the night before, ds2 didn't get a look in, it was ignore ignore all the way! He slept for 12 hours straight from being about 1yo... bliss!

jareththegoblinking totally agree with the glass of wine.

lovemy2babies. do u get chance to relax in the evening. bath n glass of wine followed by an early night. do u give 7mt supper, could elimanate waking for hunger. if u feel like u may hurt one of them jus leave the room until u have calmed. your not the 1st to think thses things. can any family help out during the day jus so u can relax for an hr, not sleep jus relax and i found that anti depressants were great to help me drop off at night. u couls also start to nite ween 7mt, they dont need nite feeds anymore.

Valerian and Passiflora are very good for insomnia and can help you relax. If you find you're to groggy, cut out the Valerian whilst you're still doing a nightfeed.

A combined magnesium/calcium supplement last thing at night is good too.

5htp can help you fall asleep and improves your mood during the day.

Once your dcs are sleeping through and if you're still having difficulty dropping off, then try hops - you buy it from the beer making stores - soak some of the heads in boiling water and it makes an unpleasant tasting tea, but really knocks you out.

What do you feed for supper to the seven month old? What kind of diet is he on? I used to give mine a rice-based baby cereal before bed once he was weaned. Does the baby eat enough during the day? Don't forget drinks too because it might not be hunger so much as thirst that's causing him to wake.

What time does your 2 year old go to bed for him to be up at 6am? It's a good idea to go to bed at the same time as them for a couple of nights a week, that's a good suggestion.

The controlled crying is a good idea too. As long has he knows you're there when he wakes, that should be enough. Don't keep going in to see him, just let him fall back asleep by himself.

Thanks ladies for the amazing replies I feel touched that you put so much effort into replying. Apologies for me not getting back quicker I've been staying at my mums.
I'm going to try and answer all questions as best as I can and please forgive typos I any.

We have a good bed time routine for both, dinner at 5, bath at 6 and bed at 7.

jareth I think 2 yr old wakes due to her weeing in nappy at night and would like to potty train for the night but don't have he energy to wake her at night and hen resettle her. We also give her a beaker of milk in bed time to keep her weight up (although weight and eating is fine) she also likes a drink in the night. 2 yr old goes to bed at 7 and does not nap during the day unless she's exhausted.

The 7 month old to be fair has been doing ok of recent (apart from last 2 nights due to teeth cutting gahhh).
Sleeps at 7 wakes at 2ish then is ready for her day to start at 6.
I dont mind 6 starts but only if I've had a good sleep
that night myself.

serendippy I have tried the sleeping at same time as the kids but I can't sleep until 9 and the whole time I'm lying there my head is full of negative thoughts and problems I can't solve. When I then wake fir the nightfeed I can't go back to sleep till 4/5 because if the
same thoughts.

countrylover distration sounds like a good idea and is what my Dh suggests that I need to control my brain but I find it very hard.

crispyface I will look into bachs as have heard good things before. Do you know if it's ok to use whilst bf?

pink I have previously cc the baby so that's why she only wakes once :) think she is genuinely needs a feed at that time though.

graciem I find it so hard to relax I'm always stressed in the day. I live a few hours drive from my family so not alot of support and I feel like Dh is a bit crap. He used to work long hours so it was justmme but now is home for 6 ish and then because he's tired he wedges tv. He will get 2 yr old (dd1) dressed after bath though. I feel that unless I ask/nag him to do something in the evenings the thought won't cross is mindoro do it. Then we sit together to watch tv and I'm so annoyed at him and it all stresses me out. I go to bed feeling so tense and stressed and frustrated and unfulfilled with my life. I sometimes walk away from them but recently the thoughts to hurt them are beginning more vivid like it would give me release. Having admitted that makes me think I need to go Gp :(

ilovemyhens thank you for your suggestions will pop to boots tomorrow for remedies.

Thanking all so much for your input really brings a lump to my throat that someone out there cares. I have tried talking to friends and I feel like I'm talking to brick Walls. Has made me rethink alot of my friendships.
Again thanks and will report back next wek with results.

From what you say in your final post, it might be worth talking to your GP or HV, you will not be the only mum in this situation and they will have real life experience of dealing with it and supporting you. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

rescue remedy is safe to use during breastfeeding, I am useless at links, but the bachs rescue remedy site actually calls it invaluable to nursing mums :) I have the rescue remedy for the daytime, which I take 3 times a day whether I need it or not. I really REALLY helps control my stress levels; I also have the night one to stop the negative thought pattern. You still think the negative thoughts (it's not magic!) but it stops that hideous cycle and tension - I have my whole family on the stuff!

Lack of sleep really messes with your mind, so don't feel bad. My HV was wonderful when I admitted I wasn't coping a couple of years back (I only have the one dd, so hats off to you) she told me a cleaner and a night off per week (when child went to grandparents) should help me, and if it didn't I might need to consider the GP. She was right and I've never returned to see her, or indeed the GP. Sometimes you just need someone to unload onto, who can offer some practical advice.

I hope it gets better for you soon.

I have just re-read the bach's webste. it does say it is invaluable to nursing mums, but that you should check all medication with a qualified doctor before taking if breastfeeding. I would imagine it is just a "coverall" to protect themselves, but if you are worried do raise it with your doc :)

When I was a student doing exams I used to drink camomile tea with a couple of drops of Rescue Remedy in the evenings. Worked great back then.

I'm also having trouble getting to sleep and back to sleep despite being tired with 18m in bad sleep phase. I tend mainly to read for ages before falling asleep, but sometimes resort to Progressive Muscle Relaxation, a technique that I learnt to deal with stage fright. It's pretty simple to learn and you could probably teach yourself off the web.

Also listening to the radio or an audio book in bed might help as a distraction. You can get little speakers that go inside a pillow if headphones are too uncomfortable.

Hth

Rescue remedy is sounding great looking forward to trying it.
silkenladder I used to enjoy listening to music as I slept but my Dh doesn't so I stopped and to be honest forgot all about my relaxing soul music! That's another thing I shall be trying :)
I used to enjoy reading to but I find if I'm feeling low I can't concentrate. Come to think of it I havnt read a good book for a while. Will pop over to the book part of mm and ask for recommendations.

I think you need to tall to your DP as to me it sounds like your resentment of him for being crap (he is, really) is what's keeping you awake. The resulting exhaustion is what's making you mad with your kids. I've been there. Does he have a clue how bad this is for you?

I'd suggest reading easy, absorbing books. I find Harlan Coben books great when I am sleepless, they're light crime books, so draw you in and distract from the day's stress but don't require any brain power. Or something like Bill Bryson might be good.

Don't switch the light on when you wake. It will wake you more. Use a torch or nightlight.

Another point, to put things into perspective, is that things seem so much worse when tired so little things your DH does/doesn't do at the moments which may not have bothered you before are magnified. Explain this to him so he can try to be more proactive and he will understand that you are not just cross with him, it is a combination of sheer exhaustion and feeling like you have too much to do.

You poor thing. I dont think that your diet will determine what sleep you manage to get but a few practical changes to the routine of your 2 DC and your DH and his migranes will.

In my humble opinion, i would suggest that you give your 2 yr old plenty of reassurance during the day and two spoons of medised with a reassuring bed time story.In order to avoid any nightime wake ups i would suggest that before lights you take your 2 year old for a potty and dispose of contents over sofa. Before you go to bed. Wake your 7mnth old for a top up feed and then be sure to thank your poor DH for all his support before another migrane confines him to another peaceful (but smelly) night on the sofa.

I do have some resentment for my Dh to which we are working on and to be fair to him he has changed lots and is willing to change which I do see. However he is still a lazy and it drives me crazy. His also lack of wanting a social life really upsets me too as I am left in city where I know very few people to try and build a life for myself.
That's it. I finally admired why I resent him. Theres a few more reasons too but won't bore you all further :)

ilovepeterandre the nappy emptying suggestion has made my day :)

Admired=admitted

Sympathy from me lovemy2babies you really are going through the mill. I would also say that tiredeness makes you feel like you are in a constant fog, so it's not surprising you are struggling.

Making a sweeping generalisation, men are really thick, you really need to spell out in black and white (or even better write a list) of what you want them to do. If DH is willing to change, that's really good.

Are there any other mum's from toddler groups/school gate that you could go out for the occasional meal with? Or even to the park for adult conversation?

Could you try bigger nappies for the 2yr old? 2 is still quite young for potty training at night I think?

Jokes aside you are not alone with these problems and I would strongly suggest a late feed for baby before you go down to stop the night feed and after a week or so gradually reduce the amounts.

Whilst i know its not good for you, its perfectly normal for a two year old to want to see mum if they wake in the night but a quick hug and turnaround back to bed should allow you to get back to sleep and in time it should stop. Its just bacome habitual and thats what children find comforting so if you just attend to them without too much stimulation and get back to bed as quickly as you can then in time your 2yo will probably just go back to sleep rather than wake you.

As far as your other child on the couch? Well i'd seriously consider putting him up for adoption.

pink list making for my Dh sounds like the way forward. I feel like Ian communicating to him but I guess if he is tired and stressed from his day he may also not hear me or understand me when I ask/expect him to tidy up. Somthing like an evening routine before we both crash out on the sofas.
I also do all the playgroup/ Nct/ baby gym/ swimming stuff but am finding it harder to make close friends as I get older, which I hear is the norm.
I don't think she needs bigger nappies, I think she wakes up whilst in the middle of a wee in nappy iyswim.
More reassurance during the day makes sense as I find if I have been ratty in the day she tends to wake more. Poor little mite.

ilovepeterandre I'm not sure how to decrease babys night feed time as I find if I give her a quick feed she wakes up earlier. Does she just need to drop the night feed Ltogether with cc?

Yes, it'll seem odd waking her but if you do and give her a good feed then she'll be full and in time will not wake for a top up in the middle of the night.

Ive been giving her a 10:30ish feed which hen takes her to waking at 3ish. Does that mean I need to cc?

Have also bought bachs night remedy and for the last couple of nights have gone to sleep much easier!
And have got some books to read so making my bedtime routine alot nicer :)

Had an early night went sleep around 8 baby woke for a feed at 11:30 and I havn been able to sleep since gahhh.

Hoping mn will lull me into sleep ...

Jareth right about dream feed, it worked for our DD, but am going through the controlled crying (no doubt will be posting here 7pm every night for the next week - hopefully not any longer than that) which does appear to work.
I got through my sleep deprivation/mummy insomnia by exercising, just 30 minutes - I ran with the pram, used the exercise bike in front of the TV and did the Tracey Anderson dance workout (latter two in the evenings or when my mum/OH could cover me).
That and making sure I drank enough water. I also took a vit B with vit C supplement, every other day in the morning.
It worked - like you I found myself waking in expectation of waking.
Good luck xxx

What an awful night
She's woken about every 2 hours screaming
I can work out what's wrong
Not hungry
Not teeth
She won't even settle on the boob
I'm crying and I hate everything
I just want to sleep
Why the heck were babies designed likethis???