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Original poster

Any ideas where we are going wrong?

40 replies

shufflebum · 02/01/2011 21:18

Just wondering if someone could look at our sleep routine and see if there is any obvious reason why it takes DS up to 2.5 hours to go down at night.
He's 21 months, sleeps in a cot and goes down for naps fine.
So here is what we do
5.15 - tea, then quiet play, tv
6.30 - upstairs, bath every other night
7pm - pjs, milk and stories, brush teeth in room, another story
7.30 - in cot, sing old macdonald Hmm till can't think of anymore animals, leave room, DS screams, go back in and resettle, leave room, DS screams, wait a minute or two, go back in resettle etc etc.
Sometimes when we resettle him he goes to sleep but within 5 minutes of use leaving the room he is awake and screaming again.
I hate him being upset so DH does most of this as he copes better with it but it is really stressful.
Any suggestions?!

OP posts:
Original poster
shufflebum · 02/01/2011 22:26

anyone?

OP posts:
Mena1 · 03/01/2011 21:14

Sorry Shufflebum, am waiting to see what gets posted..... I'm in the same boat.

Good Luck

SlightlyTubbyHali · 03/01/2011 21:15

How long/frequent are his naps?

Serendippy · 03/01/2011 21:33

You have the patience of a saint! I cannot suggest anything that will guarentee that he will go off to sleep quicker, but to make the whole process shorter I would have just one story so he knows this and when it is finished, that is it, rather than dragging it out. Would also put him in his cot, say night night and leave. As I say, this may still result in him not settling but you will have saved yourself some time and eventually he will know that it is one story, cot and bed.

Not much use but every little helps!

strawberrie · 03/01/2011 21:33

When is he up in the morning? When and how long does he nap for in the day?

i know it sounds dumb but does he actually seem sleepy when put to bed at 7.30?

jandmmum · 03/01/2011 21:34

has he always been like this or is it a recent thing? Is the room dark or light during the day? Could he be afraid of the dark? Your routine seems fine to me. hopefully someone more helpful will bw along shortly

lorelilee · 03/01/2011 21:34

That routine sounds very similar to ours and it works a treat for us - sorry. The only suggestion I have is that you try massage - might relax him a wee bit more.

Serendippy · 03/01/2011 21:35

BTW you are not 'going wrong', this sounds like a perfectly normal evening bar the screaming. Second the advice about looking at his nap and maybe trying to shorten it or change the time. Good luck!

arentfanny · 03/01/2011 21:38

Put him in his cot, read stories for about 10 minutes and then stay in the room quietly, reading a book if you want, let him fall asleep and when he has been asleep for 10 minutes or so leave the room.

Pick a spot to sit on, stay there for three nights and then move the cushion/pillow closer to the door for another trhee nights, etc, unti you are out of the room.

This worked for DD who was atrocious, it is the gradual withdrawl method.

iwouldgoouttonight · 03/01/2011 21:45

Have you always had trouble settling him at night or is it a recent thing? My DD (23 months) has become a lot more difficult to settle in the last month or so - no idea why, we'd put it down to teething or not feeling quite right or whatever, but I think its actually because she's reached the age when she's realised she can control the situation and have her say. She's the same with lots of things lately - if she walk downstairs the wrong way she screams until I walk back up with her and come down the way she wanted to!

At night we have a very similar routine to yours, except ours is wheels on the bus instead of old macdonald. You wouldn't believe how many things you can fit onto our bus, there are so many verses!

Do you mean it takes 2.5 hours from 7.30 when you put him into his cot, so you're in and out until 10pm? Or that the whole evening routine from teatime lasts 2.5 hours? How long do you leave him to cry before going back in to settle him again? We find DD will sometimes cry for a while (poss 5 mins) and we can tell its more a shout for attention rather than being genuinely upset, and she gradually calms herself down and settles herself.

Maybe you could try leaving him for a little longer before going back in to settle him and see if he can settle himself.

Original poster
shufflebum · 04/01/2011 08:54

Hi all, sorry didn't realise I had any replies! Have got to go out now but will have a good read through later when DS has his nap.

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babybouncer · 04/01/2011 09:19

My DS recently went through a stage similar to this, which shocked us because we've always thought sleeping was his special skill. We tackled it by adjusting his daytime naps (definitely no sleeping after 4pm - we wake him up if needed), reassuring ourselves that he wasn't teething/hungry/ill (putting teething gel on after his milk helped us with this, as did giving calpol/milk a few nights - he had them, but it didn't seem to make much difference). After about a wee, DH said he'd had enough and refused to pick DS up after he'd been put to bed. Along with his nighttime story, DS got a lecture about how we'd check he was okay, but he couldn't get out of his cot, then he put him down in the normal routine and when he cried (more like angry shouting, really) DH went to see him, stroked his head or chest, then left the room. Mostly it seemed that this first calmed DS, then made him really angry, and it took about 40 minutes, leaving him between 2-10 mins each time (depending on the level of crying) but eventually, the crying just stopped. Next day DS got lots of praise, same lecture at bedtime and only had to go in a couple of times. I must admit I was very sceptical at first, but it really seems to have worked.

I think iwouldgoout has a point about the independence thing at this age.

Original poster
shufflebum · 04/01/2011 15:22

Right, was going to reply during his nap but I got waylaid making lasagne for tea and now he's awake!
Will try to answer as many questions as possible while the Wiggles keep him entertained!
Generally his sleep has always been quite good, unless ill or teething then it all goes completely to pot. The problem has always been getting him to sleep, once asleep he usually stays asleep till about 6.30am
He only has one nap in the afternoon, he would previously go down at 1.30 and then sleep till 4ish. Believe it or not he would still sleep fine at night and go off to sleep relatively easily (within about half an hour).
The epic 2 hour getting him to sleep started just before Christmas and to be fair he did have a d and v bug so bad sleep was inevitable it's just getting him back on track and if possible being able to put him down at night and not have him get so upset.

His nap is now much shorter, he goes down at 1.30 and if he's not awake by 3pm which he invariably is now then I wake him so he gets on average just over an hour.

We have done CC lite (!) or rapid return however you want to dress it up but it doesn't suit him or us so we have been doing a gradual withdrawal but months later it is still taking up to an hour on a good night. Last night I went out and DH resorted to kipping on his floor for an hour which worked but is obviously not ideal if we ever want to go out or see each other in the evening!
That said I was moaning about this last night and then went on a post to help another MNetter choose music for her sleeping baby's funeral so puts it all rather in perspective. Sad

OP posts:
SlightlyTubbyHali · 04/01/2011 19:13

Tbh I tend to think that tired children sleep, so I'd think maybe he is napping too late in the afternoon. Might it be hard to slowly move it a bit earlier, so he's going down closer to 12:30 and waking up by 2? Depends on if you fancy playing about with it or not.

Alternative is: maybe he doesn't need much of a lunchtime nap at all. I know I hated it when my DD dropped that one (no time to do anything anymore!) but my sister's children all dropped theirs before they were 2 years old, and your chap is coming up on 2...

Original poster
shufflebum · 04/01/2011 21:05

SlightlyTubby I'm not listening tra la la! Can't bear the thought of him not napping!

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SlightlyTubbyHali · 04/01/2011 21:20

Can't blame you really. I made my poor DD1 go for "rests" in her room at lunchtime for weeks after she stopped napping. It was definitely more for my benefit than hers...

pointythings · 04/01/2011 21:26

Approaching 2 is also a peak age for separation anxiety - they realise that when you are not there you are not there but their little brains haven't yet got to ths stage that they are secure in the knowledge that you are nearby and will come if they call. So they scream. My older DD did this in the runup to age 2 - she'd settle to sleep beautifully but then wake up in the early hours and refuse to go back down unless one of us was with her.

I was very pg at the time so I put a mattress in her room and slept on that when it kicked off - when she woke, I'd keep it dark and just say in a very quiet voice that it was OK, I was there - and she'd go back to sleep.

After a fortnight it wasn't every night and by week 6 she stopped waking up altogether.

I realise this is a pretty intensive strategy and might not work for everyone, but the point is that this anxiety is real and needs to be handled very sensitively so I'd advocate the withdrawal method for anyone who feels that full on sharing a room is not possible or not for them.

It does pass.

clairefromsteps · 04/01/2011 21:40

My DS did a similar thing when he was about 2 . Hollered as soon as we turned the lights out and left, fine as soon as we came back to his room. This went on for a couple of hours, interspersed with him wandering downstairs etc. We did CC, rapid return, gradual withdrawal etc, didn't work. Probably not what you want to hear, but as soon as we cut out his lunchtime sleep he was sparko as soon as his head hit the pillow. He was cranky towards the end of the day for a while as he was getting so tired , but it was worth it to see him sleep through so well.

Best of luck!

hobbgoblin · 04/01/2011 21:46

I agree with posters who suggest he is not tired enough. I also think the wind down to bed starts rather early but appreciate parents need an evening. I have a nearly 18 month old but she has older siblings who are asleep between 8 and 9pm so she has a much later bedtime than your DS. She always goes down without a fuss though. She only sleeps once during the day too and that could be anything from just 45 mins to over 3 hours! I just go with it, which does sometimes mean she cat naps during car journeys and stuff.

I'd also make bed routine shorter. That's not to say that your current routine is wrong, just it isn't working for you right now so it's soemthing to try.

Original poster
shufflebum · 04/01/2011 21:46

Hmm, the separation anxiety thing makes sense, I haven't been to the loo on my own for a good few weeks.
Tonight he only took an hour and it wasn't too stressful, I actually did it rather than wimping out and getting DH to bear the brunt. I just put him down and went in every few minutes when he cried and then just pottered about on the landing putting washing away so he could hear me (our bedroom even got dusted!) and spoke to him every so often when he called out. He has woken once since he properly fell asleep but settled easily so will continue this approach for a while.....

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SlightlyTubbyHali · 04/01/2011 21:53

There you go - take him for a good gallop outside before tea to tire him out and then lots of cuddles before bed/hang around for a bit once he's in there.

Once he gets back in the habit of sleeping without making a fuss first he'll be grand again.

Sidge · 04/01/2011 21:55

Two things that came to mind when reading your posts - his afternoon sleep is quite late and he goes to bed quite early. Also his settling routine may be too drawn out. You may want to try a later but shorter bedtime routine with less singing, interaction etc.

Eg tea, then play, upstairs at 1900/1930, straight into bath, out then maybe milk with max of 2 stories, in bed and LEAVE! Pop in and shush-pat if distressed but if just yelling go in, touch him, say 'it's bedtime now, time to sleep' and leave. What do you mean by 'resettling him'? Do you mean laying him down, tucking him in? If so, don't bother. Too much interaction can be stimulating so as long as he's verbally and visually reassured keep it minimal.

You can always tuck him in when he's fast asleep!

Checkmate · 04/01/2011 21:58

Earlier nap. A lot earlier. (What time does he wake in the morning?)

Also, tv is too close to bedtime in your routine, imo. The less tv the better for this age group; save it for times when you really need the distraction, like important mnetting!

Original poster
shufflebum · 04/01/2011 22:28

I suppose the early bed time is just what we've always done and like you say to give us an evening. I will try getting him down for his nap a bit earlier as I don't really want to make bedtime much later because if we ever want to go out of an evening (unlikely!) I won't go until I know he is asleep.

He wakes any time from 6-7.30am and it doesn't seem to have any bearing on what time he went to sleep.

Resettling is literally as you say sidge unless he's hysterical in which case I pick him up and give him a cuddle.

Right off to get my sleep now, hope DS stays asleep otherwise I'm kipping on his floor.

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Stangirl · 05/01/2011 13:57

Your routine seems fine and there is some good advice on here.

May seem cruel but I would just ignore his screaming - just don't go back in at all - use earplugs if necessary. He's not actually in pain or needing anything so just leave him. Brutal but effective. Crying is exhausting and he'll tire himself out.

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