Do you think this would work?

[Iwasthefourthwiseman]

This is dd2's rough nighttime pattern:
feed most of the evening, maybe a short nap on me
Finally settle down between 11.30 & 12.30am
Wake at 6am, back down 6.30-7
wake at 9.30

This is a far from ideal situation. I'm lucky that due to my dh's hours I can either sleep till she wakes finally or at least till 8.30. Problem is that is a really late startt to the day & even if I can get back to sleep it often takes me over an hour (because it is proper morning by then, also because often my sheets are soaked with sweat which has also necessitated a change of pyjamas).

So on really bad nights I am getting 6 or so hours sleep which I don't cope well on.

I was wondering if I consistently woke her at 7.30 whether she might adjust her day a little?

I can't get her down in the evenings. The one evening I did this week she slept 8-10.30pm she kindly added a 2am wake up to her routine.

She is 3 months, ebf and day time napping is hit and miss. I struggle to get her to go down unless she is sleeping on me.

Any tips on making this into a more conventional pattern.

Have you tried getting her down earlier than that - ie 6.30/7pm? The reason I ask is that DS settles much better then than if we try it after 8pm. Apparently a young baby's 'biological' sleep time is around then, and even half an hour later can make it difficult.

Also, for us it took a good couple of weeks to establish an early bedtime, but now he consistently sleeps for three to three and a half hours every evening, so DH and I have an evening together. It now goes something like this:

Start at 5.30pm (or earlier/later by 30 mins depending on timing of last nap)
Feed
Bath
Massage
Sleepsuit
Feed in darkened bedroom, hushed tones etc
Swaddle and rock to sleep around 7
Wakes between 10 and 11 depending on when put down - feed and resettle

He doesn't sleep for as long stretches as your DD so is usually up once in the night (normally between 3 and 4) and takes an hour to an hour and a half to settle

He now wakes pretty consistently between 6am and 7am.

Worth a try maybe. Main point is it took several weeks to get this going so you have to just stick with it, even if you feel a bit daft going through the whole bath, massage shenanigans only for them to wake up an hour later or whatever, which DS did a few times. But suddenly he just 'got it' and now it's pretty much the only aspect of his sleep that we can rely on.

HTH.

Thanks for the reply. I might have to start doing what you suggest. Problem is because she is up late, she naps late. I'll have to try and keep her awake. I wouldn't mind waking at 6 if I could go to bed earlier.

Seem to remember from another thread that you have a copy of No Cry Sleep Solution. There's a good explanation of the early bedtime thing in there. Honestly, I NEVER thought it would work on DS and am still in shock that it has. Even during his 12-week growth spurt last week when all his other sleep went to shit, he still slept for three hours every evening.

Haven't got it yet but waiting for it from the library.

I have tried the same thing today, DD woke at exactly 7am so I started the day and am aiming to stick to a rough version of the EASY plan. She was still back asleep by 8.15 but in day clothes and I woke her again at 10. I will put her down again in a minute, but her day time sleep is where it usually all goes wrong. Which leads to a rubbish eveing

Don't want to go down a strict routine avenue, but could do with more structure.

How much sleep/naps should they be having at this age?

Me again. We also follow EASY (albeit loosely). I like it because it's a structure rather than a routine with set times etc, which would never work because DS would never sleep to a timetable.

Basically, DS needs to sleep again about an hour and a quarter/hour and a half after waking. So it goes like this:

Wake up
Feed (30-45 mins depending how hungry he is)
Nappy change
Play (singing, book, mat or whatever)
Watch for tired signs - for DS it's suddenly looking away/avoiding eye contact and yawning
Swaddle and rock to sleep/take out in pram

Repeat, depending how long he sleeps each time - eg yesterday he managed quite long naps so we did this three times. On days when he catnaps (grr) it's four or five times. Then, come early evening, it's a judgement call whether to try for another short nap or push through to 5.30 to start bedtime routine.

It has helped me in terms of preventing overtired screaming, to which DS is v prone, but is flexible enough to cope with his general randomness. It had also spaced out the feeds to every 2.5/3 hrs which is nice as I was starting to feel like all I ever did was feed. I still feel like I am feeding on demand because I'm just doing things in a set order rather than going, "you'll have to wait, it's not feed time yet" which I assume you are supposed to do for clock-based routines (how you get away with that I have no idea - DS would just scream until fed).

Sorry for the essay ...

How do you stop them feeding to sleep though? She seems to find it impossible to feed without a catnap!

Hmm, not much help there - DS stopped feeding to sleep a couple of weeks ago, so my only option to get him to sleep is several minutes of high-impact aerobics crossed with wrestling a wriggly caterpillar, all to the soundtrack of a detuned radio.

However, I think the advice is to watch closely when they feed and make sure they are swallowing rather than just sleepy sucking (if swallowing you see jaw moving and ears waggling rather than just lips moving). If they are just sleepy sucking, gently unlatch and sit them up, or tickle feet/stroke face.

So have tried the bath, massage routine tonight. 2 hours & 2 tries in the hammock she is still not down...

I wouldn't do it so suddenly.

You could try establishing a bedtime routine ( bath/massage etc) and then putting to bed at her normal time for her. You could then bring this time back by 15 mins every few days so she hardly notices.

It's probably also an idea to eventually make sure she doesnt stay in bed past 8ish in mornings as this will affect bedtime.

Having said all that, my experience is that you either get sleep or an evening at this age, rarely both. In other words, if you do manage to bring bedtime forward to 7-8pm you may well get 6 hrs of sleep and then waking through the night for a feed. So you may have less sleep than you are getting at present but will have an evening and time to yourself. I always preferred an evening but i had many friends who did what you are doing in order to get 6 hrs sleep themselves ( believe me - for most new mums that's a luxury)

Early word of warning, most babies go thru a 4 mth sleep regression so if suddenly all goes pear shaped - it's not you!

Today went well for me: DD was asleep by 8.30 which is an improvement on the last few nights 10 or 11. But I had to go up 3 times from when I put her down at 7.30. Now I don't know whether to try a dream feed at 11ish. her longest sleep is usually her 1st sleep of the night so not sure. I will get up with her at her nearest waking to 7am again tomorrow and keep working at the naps. Good luck!

Well done giddyup!

DD is flatly refusing to sleep, preferring instead to watch At Home With the Georgians with me and DH

I don't know what to do really, whether just to let nature take its course or to try and impose a structure. I know 6 hours is a luxury for some, but I really struggle and can't sleep in the day due to DD1. I don't mind the evenings so much when I get a break in the day, but when the day time goes tits up it all gets a bit much.

It's just frustrating as she was sleeping 12 till 7.30 for quite a few weeks which was perfect!