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14 week old still waking twice in the night...

55 replies

Ellieo · 28/09/2005 16:43

DS goes to bed at 7pm then wakes at approx 1am and 4-5am every night for a feed. Is this normal at 14 weeks? He has done the odd night of only waking once at around 3am, and also a couple of nights where he slept through till 6am. He's mainly breastfed, except for one bottle of formula before he goes to bed at night. He's still quite small, weighing around 12lbs, and has had problems feeding over the last couple of weeks. When can I expect him to drop the night feeds, and has anyone got any advice on how to get him to do this? Or should I just let him do it in his own good time?

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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
charleypops · 29/09/2005 19:31

I read somewhere that you shouldn't let your baby nap after 4pm (if you put him down at 7pm)

Has anyone tried this? does it work?

lummox · 29/09/2005 19:46

we've been trying this (for the Junies out there I think it was welshmum's sleep lady said it). Worked really well for a few days, but hasn't worked for the last three weeks.

That said, I think our problem is teeth and getting hungrier and hungrier.

I hope it is, because otherwise we're really stuffed .

tribpot · 29/09/2005 20:21

Yeah, lummox, we're the same. Ds has been disturbingly 'gummy' of late, and today I noticed that his little cheeks were looking rather rosey. Good lord, can I not get a break between colic and teething?! This child is going to finish me off!

Welshie's sleep lady actually advised me to move ds's nap til later in the avo, I think that was in the hopes he'd go to bed later and thus maybe wake up at a slightly more civilised hour in the morning.

At the mo, however, I let ds sleep when he wants to, he has very definite views on being kept awake when sleep is the preferred option.

lummox · 30/09/2005 08:40

ooh - could you tell us more about what sleep lady said? I know these things are individually-tailored to your baby, but would be relly interested to hear what she said to you.

have sent away for Richard Ferber book, but am a bit worried that lack of sleep affecting my judgement. would probably believe pretty much anything at the moment, and merrily buy any book that claimed it would help.

hmm, maybe a money making idea there - "the hatstand sleep solution", anyone?

Ellieo · 30/09/2005 09:49

Hi tribpot and Charleypops - Maybe it is being born on a full moon on midsummer's day that's made all our little ones so similar . It's bloody hard work though, isn't it! Ds had his second set of injections 2 days ago and that seems to have made him even worse sleepwise (woke three times last night and the night before). I'm interested to read about weaning - when are you two thinking of weaning your los onto solids? A lot of people have told me this can help.

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tribpot · 30/09/2005 12:31

What time of day was your lo born, Ellieo? Of the rest of our 22 June club, I note that redheadmum is really struggling with her little ds feeding about 4 times a night, not sure how Coop and mandymac are getting on now. I'm sure Coop said a few days ago her dd had started to feed more frequently in the night as well.

Weaning - well, I had wanted to hold off til 6 months because my dh has food intolerances and I don't want to introduce food too early, but even the hv is suggesting we wean earlier because of the reflux. The important thing for me will be to avoid wheat until at least 8 months (although there was a study recently showing children of coeliacs did as badly if wheat was introduced too late as too early - not that dh is a coeliac), and introduce foods very carefully so I can be sure of any reaction to them. I'm sure he'll be fine, I can eat anything, but then again, dh is lactose intolerant and that's obviously part of ds's problem now .. hmm.

Lummox, Sleep Lady's advice was aimed at getting Toby to go to sleep independently in his cot. We had already managed to start putting him down for sleeps there, but were swaddling him and then putting him down once asleep. I knew this was 'wrong' from the books, but frankly I didn't care. All we changed last night is that Toby had his bath, then bottle in the bedroom, then swaddled whilst awake but tired. Put down in the cot on his side and rocked gently backwards and forwards until he nodded off on his own.

Sleep Lady warned us it might take much longer to get him off to sleep that first night, I actually left dh to it as I thought two of us hovering in there nervously trying to perform this feat would be counter-productive. I could hear occasional cries from next door but nothing to concern me enough to go in. Anyway, it took about 40 mins in the end, but I discovered from dh that he had spent 35 mins rocking ds from side to side on his back, finally decided to give in and follow the advice and do it on his side, and he went out like a light in 2 mins Whether it would have been quicker if he'd followed the advice from the beginning I don't know, as we put ds down quite early as his afternoon nap had been interrupted by the ever-popular poo time.

In the night, I fed him at 130 and was frankly going to ignore sleep lady's advice not to feed him to sleep this first night, but it all went perfectly well. He fed nicely, I winded him which woke him up a bit, then I reswaddled him and popped him back down, bit of side to side rocking again (but no crying) and he was off til 530. I was then kept awake by dh's snoring from the room next door but the sleep lady cannot advise on such matters (other than to tell me I shouldn't let ds and dh share a room as the snoring is probably disturbing ds's sleep as well).

Popped him down for his nap the same way this morning, as daytime naps are a major problem trying to convince him he wants to go to sleep when there's anything going on in the house he might be interested in. He had a nice long nap, better than usual as I normally wake him up by inconsiderately not sitting stock still for an hour and a half, but we've now gone a bit off-piste as he's started his long lunchtime nap early and is on dh's knee in the living room. (Dh having taken the opportunity to go back to sleep as well).

Sorry, anyway, that's very long. Sleep Lady then has a plan for how you gradually withdraw from the room until he's putting himself to sleep on his own, we won't be starting that just yet although I'm impressed with how things are going so far. The better naps help him space his feeds out better as well, which as we refluxy mummies know can only be a good thing.

I'm really pleased that she hasn't advocated some kind of plan involving letting him cry it out (sorry lummox, I wouldn't do the Ferber thing unless I had exhausted every other possibility).

If he doesn't drop the nightfeeds on his own once solids are introduced, I can gradually cut down the amount of formula in his night bottles (i.e. fewer scoops in the same amount of water), although I hope it won't come to that as I don't fancy playing silly buggers with the mix of formula to water when it says on the box not to do this.

Phew, long post but hope there's some helpful info in there. I know we have been shamefully slow in getting a bedtime routine together, but the reflux has knocked us for a loop.

Ellieo · 30/09/2005 14:24

Ds born at 6.10am on June 22nd - June 21st really was the longest day of the year for me! Interesting what you say about weaning a bit early. DH also has lots of allergies (and ds is showing signs of eczema already), so I'm keen to keep on breastmilk for as long as possible, but having said that, if it'll help the reflux then I'm willing to give it a go. Think I'll hold off for another few weeks though, if poss. Got ds weighed today and he's finally hit 12lb . Not much for other babies, but for him a real result! The HV said that it was completely normal for him to be waking twice in the night, since he's quite a small baby. She said it might be another few months before he goes through . Oh, well...

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tribpot · 30/09/2005 18:50

Yes, Ellieo definitely too early for us to be thinking about weaning our little ones, sorry to hear about the exzema I guess you'll want to be pretty careful about what you introduce as well, although have you experimented with taking lactose out of your diet to see if that helps ds?

My ds was born at 0157, so whilst you were finishing your work I was being wheeled back into the maternity ward thinking "good god, WHAT just happened". In fairness my labour wasn't that long, I went in first thing on 21st June to be induced but they didn't get round to doing it til 2 in the afternoon, so it was "only" 12 hours from start to finish, courtesy of a shedload of syntocinon to hurry things along. Ahh, happy days.

Re: your ds being distractible whilst on the breast, have you tried stroking his face with a muslin? I have no idea why but this nearly always works with mine, to get him focused back on the business at hand. Obviously all of our muslins are constantly covered in vomit, so have that handy 'milk' smell, which is what I think is doing it for him

mears · 30/09/2005 19:08

hunker's thread on weaning which has useful guideline

mears · 30/09/2005 19:10

my guideline which has info about products which prevent eczema

mears · 30/09/2005 19:10

Sorry - I meant my thread not guideline!

alux · 30/09/2005 19:55

regarding your lo's potential eczema, do try eliminating dairy from your diet. I did this week and my dd's eczema is loads better. I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will continue to improve.

tribpot · 30/09/2005 21:31

Thanks for the info ladies - like most people I think I am only being minimally guided in my decision making by my hv (which largely makes me wonder why I bother, to be honest). But the guidelines make sense and seem to take into account that some babies are ready to start solids sooner than others. I certainly don't think mine is, btw, will decide nearer the time bearing all factors in mind.

Ellieo · 01/10/2005 14:44

Interesting to read the thread about weaning. It's tempting to start early to try and get ds to sleep a bit better (and help with his reflux), but I think, like Tribpot says, I need to bear in mind ALL factors. So I won't be starting for a good few weeks, if not months yet. Had a dreadful night last night with ds waking at 11pm, 1.30, 2.30 and 3.30, before finally sleeping through til 7am. He was REALLY grizzly and just didn't want to go back down. Dont' know why he's gone so haywire. Usually he sleeps through from 7pm till at least 1am no probs. Could it still be a reaction from his 2nd set of injections on Tuesday?

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Mirage · 01/10/2005 18:14

Ellieo,my dd is echoing your ds.We had one of our worst nights yet last night.She woke at 10pm,1am,2.30am,3.10am,5.00am & would not settle without a drink of milk or water.I am at my wits end & just don't know what to do next.

We have gotten rid of the dummy & she doesn't seem to be missing it.I have stopped giving her solids after lunchtime in case that is aggravating the waking.

I have never been so tired in my life-I nearly fell asleep in the library this afternoon (I was checking out the 'sleep' books).DD1 was such a fab sleeper that we never had any real problems with her.

As for the weaning,it is an individual thing-both my dd's seem to prefer solids to milk.My friend weaned 2 of her dd's at 12wks,but her 3rd,who is 9 days older than my dd2,doesn't show any interest in being weaned at all.

I stopped taking any notice of what H.V.'S advise when DD1 was tiny.[wink).

Wishing you all a sleep filled night.

lummox · 01/10/2005 18:55

Hi all,

We had a (slightly) better night last night - one four hour stretch and the rest 1.5 hours.

I'm pretty sure I can now see (and feel) a tooth coming through so am hoping, hoping, hoping that the last three weeks has been teething.

Either way, have decided that we will go for one tea spoonful of solids tomorrow - ds will be 18.5 weeks. Not expecting it to help with sleep for the moment (hoping it won't make things worse, though) but he seems to me to be ready.

Tribpot - I didn't realise the Ferber book was a leave to cry thing. I don't know about older kids but my ds is far, far too small to be allowed to cry. Think that if I succeed in one thing in relation to him I would like it if he never, never, stopped crying through despairing that anyone would come to him. Sorry, bit hormonal (and sleep deprived) there.

aloha · 01/10/2005 19:00

Ferber is not a 'leave to cry book' - it is quite a serious read about how children's sleep works. Yes, there is information for controlled crying for older babies, but there is also a lot of information about sleep associations etc. I would recommend it.

tribpot · 01/10/2005 19:10

Sorry aloha, I think I was basing my Ferber comment on The Baby Whisperer's remarks about "Ferberising".

Lummox, I'm with you, there'll be no being left to cry it out here either, not whilst he's so tiny. I have a complete horror of stuff like that from knowing (or at least suspecting) what my adopted niece went through with her birth mother, i.e. being left for hours to cry because bm was too pissed to look after her. (Btw, not suggesting that anyone who lets their baby cry it out is in the same league as this woman, obviously).

Have you read The No Cry Sleep Solution ? That's more my cup of tea.

Mirage, you poor thing Can you get anyone to take over for a few hours so you could get a bit of rest?

Mirage · 02/10/2005 07:17

Hi again,

Tribpot,DH & I take turns to wake up with dd2,but as she is so loud & once she starts crying does not give up until she gets what she wants,the other person gets woken too.

I am going to put the cot in the spare room tonight & sleep in there with her I think.Last night,she went to sleep at about 8.30pm after 3 attempts to settle her,woke again at 2.10am,had a feed & went back off again til 4.45,had another feed & was awake again crying at 6.30am.I have tried everything to resettle her,but she isn't having it.I know she is tired as she is rubbing her eyes,but she screams like fury if she is put back in her cot.She is nodding in her bouncy chair now-I'm going to try putting her back down again.

She still desperately need to suck & can'ft find her hands very easily/or doesn't like them much.I binned the dummies on Wednesday,as they were becoming a habit.

Hope everyone else had a better night than we did.

hermykne · 02/10/2005 08:31

mirage just scanned this thread, why take her dummy away, that might be her wee comfort , and u can decide later on just to allow herhave it a sleep times. imo they wont affect her teeth if thats what your thinking? and she ll learn to find it in her cot at night, save u going in to her

Mirage · 02/10/2005 14:10

hermykne,thanks for your message.DD2 has only had a dummy for fretful periods during the day & very rarely at night,only when its impossible to settle her any other way.I was advised to get rid of it before 4 months as it can become a habit after that.We did this with dd1 & it worked perfectly,she found her thumb & is an exceptionally good sleeper.

DD2 has started waking specifically for the dummy/something to suck,so I thought if we did away with it earlier,rather than later,it would be easier for her to find her own way of self soothing.

I have to admit that I loath dummies,despite both my girls having one.I remember a friend who had a ds thge same age as my dd1 getting up 50 times in one night to replace his dummy-she was so tired she could hardly walk.That story made me even more determined not to keep using one.

It is a vicious circle I suppose,she wants to suck-I give her a dummy/bottle,then when she reawakens,she can't get back to sleep without the same thing again.I'm stuck really!

Ellieo · 03/10/2005 09:50

Mirage, I so feel for you - we had another bad night last night. DS up at 1230, 330 and 530. Doesn't sound too bad, except that I couldn't get him to go back down, so each time he woke was like a marathon to get him to go back to sleep. Having tried everything else, I finally just fed him and let him fall asleep on the breast. I know that goes against what all the books say, but I didn't really know what else to do. I too am at my wits' end and am beginning to feel like I'll never get a good night's sleep in my life again

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Mirage · 03/10/2005 12:34

Ellieo you poor thing,last night sounds nightmareish.Am I right in thinking that your DS has reflux? Is he on any medication for it? How are his naps during the day?

He is still only tiny,so please don't beat yourself up about feeding him to sleep-we have all done it.Besides,if you believe what the parenting books say,we are all doing the 'wrong' thing,as they all disagree with each other anyway.I know what its like to be so tired that you'd do anything to get some sleep.I told dh last night that I'd run around the garden naked if it meant that I'd get more than a few hours unbroken sleep.

We had a minor breakthrough last night.I put dd2 to bed in the spare room,in her cot at 8pm,after her 7pm feed.She winged & cried after a few minutes.Dh went back up,set her musical cot toy going again & reassured her that she was only going to sleep.Well,she grumbled to herself for 20 minutes,but went off & didn't wake up when I went to bed (I slept in the spare room with her last night,so dh could get some sleep).She woke up at 2.30am,had a feed,went back to sleep again until 4.45,when she started moaning & thrashing about.I ignored her to see if she could get herself back to sleep & she did!She woke for another feed at 5.30 & went back off until 6.30am when she started stirring,making a noise & leg thumping again.I ignored her & she slept on until 8.30am.I can't believe it.I know that I was still awake with her each time she stirred,but at least she didn't need a bottle to soothe herself back to sleep.I have been strict this morning too & put her down for a nap at 10.30am,she only cried once & is still asleep now.This hasn't happened for weeks-she normally wakes after an hour & then is to tired to feed properly.Today she did wake & cried once after an hour,but went off again.I SO hope we have cracked it-I am a horrible person if I don't get enough sleep.I'm also taking dd2 to the Drs this afternoon to see if she does have reflux-she has all the symptoms & I'd hate about it.

I am loosely following the Baby Whisperer routine as it worked wonders for dd1,who by her 2nd birthday had only woken us in the night once since she was 9 wks old.

Better go & wake dd2 for lunch.If I don't get online again,I hope it gets better for you soon.

Mirage · 03/10/2005 12:35

meant 'hate her to be in pain & we'd not done anything about it'.

tribpot · 03/10/2005 13:20

Mirage, is your dd happier to sleep in a more upright position, i.e. on you or in her car seat? (A classic reflux symptom - I had to practically sleep upright in the last trimester as well cos of heartburn). My hv told me I could put ds in his car seat for up to 5 hours at night provided it was well ventilated so he didn't overheat. Fortunately the Infant Gaviscon has avoided that one but it's the reason we got in such a pickle with his sleeps - he was just much happier & in less pain if propped up on one of us.

My ds also kicks about and stirs a lot in the night, I don't get up to him unless he actually cries, i.e. wants a feed. Still get disturbed a lot but dh and I split the night shift between us so it's not too bad.

Ellieo, don't worry about what the books say. You have to get some sleep. Okay, maybe this buys some problems down the line, but you won't be able to face doing anything about anything unless you are at least semi compos mentis!

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