6 month old - have I ruined her sleeping ability?

[Trillian42]

DD is almost 6 months old & I'm at my wits end. I'm the only one who can get her to sleep... and she's EBF so between feeding, getting her to nap & getting her to sleep at night, I have no life. At all. My husband takes her for an hour in the morning so I can sleep, & he usually takes her as soon as he gets in from work which is only 1 hour before her bedtime so from that point onwards it's me trying to settle her for sleep, again. I'm dreading upcoming weddings because I can't imagine how my parents or parents in law will be able to manage.

She has never fallen asleep on her own. She either feeds to sleep, falls asleep in the buggy, in the car or with me lying down next to her, rubbing her tummy/saying ba-ba over & over & over again . My husband can get her to fall asleep for naps if he rocks her in his arms for 15 mins when she's tired, but not at night time.

We read the Baby Whisperer when she was a few weeks old but still couldn't get her to self-settle so gave up on it as a useless book. Our latest book is the No Cry Sleep Solution, but following the advice hasn't had any miracle effect either.

Transferring her from our bed to her cot sometimes works, but mostly she's sleeping with me while my husband sleeps in the other room. I really hate this, and although he doesn't complain, he's not thrilled about it either.

She wakes at a minimum every couple of hours in the night and always wants a feed, though sometimes it's so short I know it's just for comfort. She used to sleep through the night from about 3-4 weeks to 13 weeks, so transferring her to the cot wasn't the 5 time a night ordeal it is now. So we've given up & it's separate beds for me & my husband for most of the night. (She's in a brace so takes up a lot of room in the bed).

Because I'm in the bed with her, I think she has lost any ability to self settle when she stirs & just looks for boob. I feel like a failure when I automatically feed her although she's fed an hour previously just because I'm like a zombie & can't face an hour of trying to settle her without feeding before giving in and feeding her anyway. I'm dreading giving up BF as sleep is going to be impossible. I'm dreading having to drop the floor of the cot as then transferring her will be impossible. I'm sick to my stomach with the thought that I've probably created her sleep problems with my bad parenting.

We decided to be a little tough the other night and during the failed transfer to the cot, tried a bit of the pick up, put down technique. When she woke I picked her up & managed to stop her crying, she fell asleep in my arms. I put her down & picked her up again when she started crying - instead of being soothed by me picking her up, started crying harder & harder, picking up an octave each time (all while still in my arms). We gave it 15 mins until we both caved and I put her on the bed, fed her & she fell back asleep. To clarify - she had just fed before the failed transfer, so definitely wasn't hungry or in any discomfort. She didn't open her eyes at all, which makes me think she really wanted to be asleep, but genuinely can't sleep herself.

When she starts crying, it rapidly escalates if not stopped soon enough. My husband thinks maybe controlled crying is worth a shot as it worked for our friends, but apart from not wanting to do it because I find it cruel, I really don't think it would work with DD. Crying makes her worse, not better.

I know this whole post sounds moany & selfish, but I'm feeling completely sorry for myself. I've a headache & a sore back from lack of sleep & cold last night. She wouldn't stay asleep unless my boob was in her mouth last night so I spent most of the night without any duvet lying on my side to try and keep her asleep. I'm exhausted and already spent 2 hours trying to get her to nap this morning.

Please, please, please if anyone has any suggestions, words of wisdom or anything at all that will make me feel better, please post.

Ok how do you feel about feeding and then putting her down in thd cot and humming and singing until she falls asleep?

Sounds simple but will involve a certain amount of screaming (it won't harm her though)

You may find that eventually, although she always cries a bit before sleeping, it is short-lived and she will sleep for longer.

Also strong bed time routine - any waking after bedtime is met with feed in the sark and back in cot.

'dark'

Also dummy may be helpful.

Trillian42 you are doing nothing wrong! you just have a baby that is hard to get to nap.

i would say if she naps in her pram, take her for walks to get her to nap, even if my ds wouldn't sleep it would chill him out a bit.

Also give yourself a limit on how long you will try to get her to nap. If me this was one hour after that I would give up, play with him a bit have a cup of tea and then try again in another hour. Otherwise the frustration would just take me over.

You're not doing anything wrong. Babies don't seem to like going to sleep even though it's sometimes what they need and it does them good, they still like to fight it. If you watch a baby or toddler fall asleep they always try and keep their eyes open for as long as possible whereas when we want to go to sleep we shut our eyes. I've often wondered at what age it changes.

It does sound like your baby gets over tired.

As a general rule at the moment my DD#2 who was 6 months at the weekend needs a sleep every 1.5-2 hours. I try to watch for her cues as well, she's just started to be awake for closer to 2 hours and sometimes it is a bit longer if we're out, but she just gets grumpy if it's much more than that. She usually wakes up about 7 so I try to make sure she has a sleep again about 9, maybe a bit earlier but I have to get DD#1 to school. I find the rest of the day goes better if she isn't too tired for that first nap.

trillian42 i don't think you need to worry about not doing bath time before bed. to me i think the whole bath at bedtime thing is about creating a sleep association and about tiring them out a bit. i only switched ds's bath to before bedtime instead of in the morning a month ago, when he started to sit up in the bath and so his bathtimes became more active (so it helped tire him out). but i think its possible to have other sleep associations as cues that its nearly bedtime, the key thing is just to have some sort of bedtime routine i really don't think it matters what it is.

thanks amijee for clarification on the site, the week long support sounds good as i think support for any kind of sleep training is very important to stop you giving up.

i'm now going to start another thread as i don't want to hijack yours trillian

muslimah28 - hijack away! It's interesting to see other people with similar problems. I'm curious to see how you get on with the forum. I do think bathtime is good as a precursor to bedtime as it's something so different for her so have been thinking of ways to manage to bath her on my own.

Our 'routine' is already out the window as DD woke at 4.30ish & stayed awake for well over an hour chattering at first, and then grumbly crying IYKWIM. I made sure it wasn't wind, checked if she was hungry and then ignored her & she eventually went back asleep. (Though she did try to latch on to my cheek!) As a result though she woke at 8.30 this morning! I didn't set an alarm as I never need to, so obviously her first nap of 9am didn't happen. It's a little unrealistic so I think I'll have to go back to every 2.5 hours ish but with a definite bedtime of 7pm.

CommanderDrool - I don't mind letting her cry a little once the cries don't get too distraught. She has a range of cries (presumably like most babies) but when she gets to a certain level, she's so upset that she's almost impossible to calm. It's that stage that kills me.

We do use a soother - once or twice during the night she's looked up at me with wide awake eyes & a smile and as soon as I've popped in the soother, her eyes close again! Like magic . Unfortunately it doesn't always work. She's a very sucky baby and if she doesn't have a soother, spends her time sucking everything in sight. We only use the soother when she gets grumbly.

Once she's down for the night, I only feed her in the dark. DH has started going up if she wakes when it's too early for a feed to settle her which seems to be working well.

Liloosmum - that's a lot of naps - are they short? How long does your DD sleep at night time? DD can sleep sometimes for 3 hours in one nap, though more usually it's less, so she'd never be ready for a nap again 2 hours after a long one.

beachavendre - we're housebound at the moment as the pavements here are treacherous with deep frozen snow, but we do usually go for walks & I often try to time her afternoon nap with a walk. I think my current mental state is due to the fact that I feel totally trapped & I can't imagine it's good for a baby to be stuck indoors either.

thanks trillian here is the other thread i started, just one response so far but i'm hoping!!

basically my issue is not purely a feed to sleep habit. we also rock to sleep in our hammock. the hammock has been a life saver in the short term, but it has meant we've prolonged this sleep association. and basically i have to break it sooner rather than later as at around 12 months ds will need to move to a cot.

what im doing is rocking him less, and if he starts to cry then i rock him again but stop before hes fully asleep, and we just keep repeating this until ds goes to sleep. so its NCSS method but ive adapted it to the hammock. i like the sound of PUPD as well, and sometimes if ds is really not settling with rocking i'll pick him up, settle him and then put him down and go back to where we were before. but PUPD is a bit more awkward in a hammock, its not as quick and easy to get them in and out.

so essentially ive been trying to work out how to do NCSS with my hammock.....posted a thread specifically on this before and only got a couple of responses, one of which was CC.

the reason i don't want to do CC is that i did actually try it and i gave up because ds is not one of those babies who will just 'get it' straight away and it'll be a quick fix. he'll be one of those who cry the whole night, each and every night for about a week until he gets it. i'm not prepared to do that to him, and also now i wouldn't do it for many other reasons, i didn't know enough about it when i tried it.

Trillian we have a similar bath issue to yours, in that we have to carry the baby bath through the kitchen to the living room because the bathroom is both cold and tiny. And DH often doesn't get home until 7pm, so like you I was reluctant to make it part of the bedtime routine for ages.

However, we started it about 6 weeks ago and it's made a real difference in terms of getting DD "ready" to fall asleep - the nights we've missed it for one reason or another she has been much harder to get off (I still have to feed her to sleep and it doesn't make the rest of the night any better, but hey ho). I manage by not filling the bath very full so I can carry it and topping it up with a jug if necessary; it also takes a while to get everything assembled in the living room but DD has nappy free time while I'm doing this and DH tidies it all away when he gets in.

Alternatively, I know friends have introduced a massage instead of a bath, which is also relaxing and a distinct activity to associate with bedtime, so perhaps that might work for you instead?

Like Liloosmum I've noticed that DD really needs to nap every 2 hours and I've found her tired signs to be unreliable so tend to go by the clock unless she's really eye-rubbing/ear-pulling etc (although if it's not been 2 hours the only way to get her to sleep is to take her out in the pushchair). So our daily routine is dictated by what time she wakes up in the morning and then after each nap. Sometimes this means lots of 30 minute naps but more recently (until we cocked it up last week by disrupting this routine!) she'd started to go down for an hour or sometimes two - I think short naps can be a symptom of overtiredness too.

Muslimah, maybe we should start our own version of that sleep forum, where we all post our plans for getting our DCs to sleep better and then provide moral support and encourgement to implement them?! I feel like I know what I want to do but lack the necessary determination to see it through!

I love the idea of the support forum beancounting!

That's my idea with the bath too except I planned to bring the bath in empty & fill it using a bucket which is much easier to carry, and then get DH to empty it later! We have the Ikea one which doesn't have handles and even has an uncomfortable rim which digs into your hands.

I find that 2 hourly is too often for DD - sometimes I try to get her to nap after a couple of hours using every trick I have if she is rubbing her eyes etc, but it hasn't worked for the last month or so. The first nap of the day seems to work around 2.5 hours later & the 2nd 3.5 hours later, but this is not guaranteed as you can tell by my posts! She wasn't a great napper even as a newborn, but made up for it by sleeping through the night!

Do you have a routine for naps too?

No, and I'm beginning to realise that a nap routine might be a good idea (I hadn't really appreciated what creatures of habit these babies are!) but not sure what to do - it's got to be fairly quick but also distinguishable from both the bedtime routine and from anything that we might normally do in the course of a day (e.g. I don't want her to start thinking that reading books sends you to sleep!). Any ideas?

It must be even harder when your DD used to sleep through! Mine has only ever managed 5 hours in one stretch although that seems like unimaginable bliss now...

oh yes beancounting lets do the support forum, i think itd be great!!

I started doing a naptime routine a couple of days ago. Ive always got the fallback that i ca rock ds in the hammock but im now trying to get him not so used to that. So now i draw the curtains, put ds in his sleeping bag, which i figure in itself is a sleep association, then we have a book, and then we listen to his mobile once, and i put him down. then i start my 'limited rocking' routine

Hi OP

Mother of a hard to settle baby here too. Boy do I know the feeling of zombie like tiredness.

One thing that stands out to me is that perhaps your baby is overtired already when going down?

Before even the first yawn happens, have her in the cot. Maybe once about two hours have passed since the last wake up, put her in her cot with a little taggy blanket or something.

That pantley pull off method looks good. And pretty gentle. Just remember she will not be able to self settle if overtired. And if she's yawning, she is overtired.

hi guys
You are all were I was 2 months ago- frustrated and totally exhausted!
We had no routine and I really needed one. I think where i went wrong was I would nap ds a couple of hours from when he woke and then let him sleep as long as he wanted and then count a couple of hours and then try to nap him again.

Now we stick to the clock, which means sometimes I have to wake him (which i still don't like doing) and other times I re-settle him in his naps. Also if he wakes at 5:40 rather than 6:30 then tough! he has to stay awake for longer. It took about 3-4 weeks for him to adjust but now he wakes up more regularly at 6:30 and goes down for his naps really easily, 5 minutes with a dummy and me sitting by his bed.

My routine which I have been using since he was 5 months is 8:45 nap 45 mins
12:20 naps for 120 mins and 4:00 nap for 30 mins. I don't count to the minute but try to get as close as we can.

All these naps started off 15 mins earlier but I moved them back because he was taking longer to settle. Also sometimes he doesn't do the 4:00 nap so we just have quiet time lights off in the bedroom.

Also we had quite a complex pre-nap routine, song, sleeping bag, massage and book and after doing this every nap for about a week I was able to shorten it, now it's just sleeping bag/dummy.

I was quite shocked because I thought a 'routine' might interfere with his natural sleep patterns and i would be pushing him into something he was not ready for but I was surprised at how much easier my life became when I tried it. I think I was also realistic some days it would work and other days it was a right off but we got there in the end.

beancounting- I was going to suggest the mobile like muslimah28 said - some friends used this as part of their routine so successfully that we immediately bought one! Unfortunately DD is scared of it & cries every time it is put on. It's the music, not the movement. It's a wind up music box so if you are getting one I'd try out the music bit first!

billybunter - I've tried several times to get her to nap earlier than I think she needs it but it never works. Even in the buggy. I've tried bringing her for a long walk and she'll eventually fall asleep after 30 mins which would have been the time that she would have slept anyway. I don't doubt that she could do with a sleep earlier but she doesn't seem to drop off easily.

beachavendrea - I tried the set times for naps for just one day (!) but my difficulty was that I can't predict how long she'll sleep for so wasn't sure if the times I was picking were right. For example she just woke up in the middle of this post after a 20 min nap, whereas this time yesterday she slept for almost 2 hours. How did you come up with the times? DD doesn't seem to have a consistent time - I've been keeping a sleep diary for a couple of weeks.

The only thing I can think of that may be affecting her for the last fortnight or so is that she is out of a harness which she wore 24/7 for 3 months. It didn't restrict her fully, but she's probably revelling in her new found freedom. When she feeds now she has her legs constantly moving/kicking which isn't conducive to sleep. That has coincided with my renewed efforts to sort out her sleep patterns??

Trillian 42, do not feel like if you are doing anything wrong. My DD story is identical to your one. He refused to be in a cot since day 2 when he was born and for the first three weeks of his life, he would sleep only on me. Not sure how helpful my tips are but here you go.

1. bath - great part of ritual, majority babies find it soothing... Be careful because sone babies can find it very stimulating (my one does), so for those it is not suitable
2. ensure that the baby is not overstimulated and that you put him to bed before he starts to rub eyes etc. For bad sleepers by the time they rub their eyes, it is usually too late. if you not sure then usually at the age your baby is at, they do need to sleep after 2-3 hours after they were up. Also some babies after 6 month apparently like to follow 2-3-4 hours gap between their sleeps. I.e. 2 hours after the first, 3 hours after the second, 4 after the last sleep
3. if you take baby too early to the bed you can destimulate them by playing them music or one od those stars projectors with teddy bears. (my hard to please DD adores this one)
4. do push your husband to find his way to settle him. I was until 4 month in the same situation as you but I told my husband he needs to find his way because image if something would happen to me or if I would need to go to hospital etc. It did took him few days and DD was resisting at first. But now my husband can settle him in 5-15 mins... Depending on luck. Admittedly it is by carrying him, whilst doing long steps and humming to him. Not ideal but at least we have breast alternative. It also takes some pressure of me and it is really lovely as my husband now enjoys settling him to sleep. (the first three or four times during night... Then we switch).
5. you are not alone, there are many mums in the same situation as you and me. The important thing is that whatever method you choose and is right for you, stick to it for at least 3 weeks otherwise babies find it confusing. The routine is very important.
6. try holding your DD hand or gently putting hand on his chest when he wakes up during the night or kissing him. These things don't tend to work below 6 month but after that you will be surprised as they suddenly start to work. So just keep trying.
7. the day sleeps are very important. If he does not sleep enough during the day, then he is less likely to sleep well at night and if everything else fails and he still only wants your breast then keep reminding yourselve that theyvdo grow fast. He is not likely to be sleeping on your breast forever (also it seems that way) and that these sleepless nights might be the most tender monents you ever have in your life. After all he is waking up because he wants your closeness, your love and whilst it is bit less sweet at 4 am, then it was at 9pm and then at 11,12 1 or 2 am...it is still adorable. :-)

Trillian42 my ds was exactly the same I had no idea how long he would nap for! sometimes 10 mins then sometimes 3 hours! That's why I would never wake him as i didn't know how long his next nap would be.

We hired a sleep consultant and she gave me the routine timings and how long he should be napping. And I read a few books and it coincided with what she said.

to get the routine working I would just keep on re-settling if he woke up too soon or wake up if he slept too long. The mid-day nap was a killer I would sometimes be in his room trying to re-settle him for an hour. In that case I would give up and just wait for his afternoon nap.

Also the afternoon nap was always done in the pram, i would start walking at about 3:15 and just let him fall asleep whenever and he tended to even himself out on this nap e.g. if he hasn't sleep much at lunchtime he would sleep longer in his pram or if he had a long time lunch sleep he would have about half an hour in his pram.

To be honest the naps didn't get more predictable until he stopped going to sleep on the boob, as i think he was just eating too much and getting indigestion and was waking up with a sore tummy. When we started using the dummy he started napping a whole lot better.

I'm not sure if you use a dummy, or want to? but we introduced it first during the day as kind of a toy and then started using it for naps. it saved my life! it allowed his dad to settle him and made the whole process a lot less intense.

Sorry for the long post!

Thanks Trillian - she has a lightshow projector thing with music that we use at bedtime so we could try that for naps (we have to put it so she can't see the lights though as she just finds them way too interesting!), I think I'll put her in her sleeping bag as well.

The idea of a strict routine is interesting Beachavendrea, DD's sleep is so bad that it's seemed counter-intuitive to wake her up so it's interesting to see that it worked for you - might be worth a go!

Trillian and Muslimah, I've started another thread (have hijacked this one enough!) where I've posted my current "sleep plan" and will update on progress if anyone wants to do likewise!