Don't understand 'putting down'

[Thingiebob]

I think I am probably being a bit thick here. I have a nine month old who is rubbish at sleeping. I've posted about her sleep probs before. She doesn't go to sleep at any particular time and can still be awake at ten at night despite being clearly exhausted. We have tried rocking, soothing, calming environment, bottle etc but nothing seems to work and she goes to sleep when she wants which is usually when she is exhausted.

Well-meaning friends and family talk about putting their babies down at certain times in the evenings because their bedtime is at 7/8 etc and suggest I do the same thing.

I think I am missing something here. If I put my daughter into her cot when she is not tired or wants to sleep, she will scream and scream and throw herself around the cot. I have done this before and she got so distressed she started retching and shaking and it took the rest of the evening for my DH and I to calm her down and in the end we all co slept.

So, just to clarify. Putting down means I put her in the cot at a particular time and walk away?

Is this controlled crying or crying it out? Am getting so sick of people such as certain relatives looking at me as if I am stupid and telling me to 'just take her up to bed/put her down in her cot at X o clock'

Sorry - I am so, so tired

You need to get a routine going, then eventually you will be able to put her down at a certain time and she will know its sleep time. We do the whole bath, bottle and bed thing and put 13mo dd down at 7pm, more often than not she goes to sleep without a fuss.

With the older ones (9 and 11) I just scream "go to bed" every 5 minutes from about 8pm and they eventually give in and go

Overtiredness maybe part of the problem. What about trying the full milk, bath routine a lot earlier (like 6.30 or

7), go up with her and lie with her on your bed till she settles. If that works, you can work on getting her to settle alone gradually.

They aren't getting it.

Putting down means 'putting in cot/bed for the night' - but I feel the phrase has connotations of '...and then the baby/child will peacefully go to sleep on their own'.

The thing about trying the things you've tried is that sometimes you have to give them a go for a good week before you see any resutls.

I don't know what 'crying it out' is either, but cc (which I've done, but not on a baby) is when you go back in at intervals to say 'good night' and you lie them down and then walk out the door.

Throw a question back at the well meaning fools: 'when I do that, she starts screaming, so what do I do to stop her and get her to go to sleep?'. Then you parrot a bit to the effect 'yes, I put her in her cot and walk away and, like I say, she starts screaming and crying till she's nearly sick. How do I stop her?'

Sorry, I haven't read your other threads, so apologies if I'm saying what's already been said. Have you read that Pantley woman's book? It's about how you get them to go to sleep without the screaming and wailing and tantrums, but I haven't read it.

What's her daytime routine like?

"putting down" need not mean walking away, it can mean sitting with her, patting, singing lullabies etc for as long as it takes, even with the occasional cuddle if she's distressed. It may be an unhelpful suggestion in your circs, but it's not synonymous with crying it out or controlled crying.

We could never just 'put DD down' and walk away, it takes time for any LO to get used to the routine...I would echo what tinierclanger said, although you could try putting her into her cot, but staying with her until she sleeps... She may well cry and shout (my DD did at first) but once she realises it's sleep time, she will get better and you can gradually (over a few weeks, maybe less) move further and further away until she settles without you in the room. This is called gradual withdrawal and you can look it up on the Sleepytot website, among others.

I've never been one for putting children to bed and walking away regardless of their age or state. My dd is 10 months old and I sing her to sleep every night after I've put her brother to bed. I didn't really get in to a proper bedtime routine until she was 6months old though, I floundered around a lot.

However once I started I have not deviated one bit from the routine. This bit is important while you're establishing the routine. Now if like me you don't want to leave your dd to cry, then be prepared for a few nights of spending a lot of time getting her to sleep. Lots of gentle wind down, singing, stroking face, quiet talking/nursery rhymes etc.

If you don't think she's tired until 10pm then aim to have her in bed by 10pm. Once a routine is established and she understands the cues ie bath, bottle, cuddle, songs = bedtime she will start to realise now it's bedtime and then you can start moving it earlier and earlier, by 15 mins each night until she's going to bed at a time you like.

I don't think necessarily all children must be in bed by 7pm, we're all individuals and even at that age babies have times when they're more lively than others. DD has always been a more evening person, ds has to be in bed by 7 or he's beside himself with tiredness.

That's the gentle way and although I think it takes longer it reaps much greater rewards because children need to learn that bedtime is a positive time, peaceful, calm and nothing to resist.

God that makes me sound like such a hippy :o

"You need to get a routine going, then eventually you will be able to put her down at a certain time and she will know its sleep time. We do the whole bath, bottle and bed thing and put 13mo dd down at 7pm, more often than not she goes to sleep without a fuss."

Although it's worked for you like that, it might not for the OP.

There are lots of babies like this, but also lots who you can't just put down to sleep, they need a little more help!

MIL used to always say stuff like - "why don't you just rock DS to sleep - that's what I did with my two, you don't need to keep BFing him to sleep". Then when she babysat for us, she has a go a rocking him to sleep and discovered that I wasn't making it up, it really doesn't work for him - but until she saw it with her own eyes she just thought I was being difficult I think.

If I put DS down in his cot when he's not fully asleep, he'll pull himself up to standing and call for me. If I don't come he'll cry louder and louder until I do! In fact the first thing he does when he wakes up - before he's even fully conscious - is pull himself to his feet.

For my friend, "putting down" means putting her beautifully calm daughter in her cot. Her DD then gurgles and happily looks at stuff until she drifts off to sleep. I think for some people with babies like this it's hard for them to appreciate just how different other babies can be!

"Am getting so sick of people such as certain relatives looking at me as if I am stupid and telling me to 'just take her up to bed/put her down in her cot at X o clock'" you are not being stupid - they are.

FWIW DS is a night owl too. I've just kind of accepted that he goes to bed later than other children (it's a battle otherwise, and just not worth it!). I'm hoping that when he drops his daytime nap he'll go down earlier.

Around 9 months sleep can go doolally anyway so any magical putting down probably won't work.

I introduced a mini nap routine and a bedtime routine so DS knows it's bedtime. We used to have horrendous trouble with him falling asleep later out of exhaustion. It stopped incredibly quickly once we went for a really really early bedtime of 6pm. Even 7pm was too late for him unfortunately. I also made sure he didn't sleep past 7 in the morning to regulate his clock a bit.

To get him to sleep, I still feed/cuddle/rock (he's 13 months) but he will self settle if he's in the mood. Once I start feeding, the lights are out. If he doesn't fall asleep, I'll put in his cot and he'll flap about with his lovey then drift off provided he knows I'm there. If he grizzles, I'll pick him up.

I know one person who's baby gurgles himself to sleep but they used cry it out on him (left him to cry). She said it took three hours the first night :(

If I were you I'd work on getting a couple of decent naps a day by any means and set up an early bedtime routine. Your aim is to get your DD sleeping earlier. Once that's sorted you can tackle the "putting down" later.

Ok
Thank you all so much for your considered responses. I feel so much better now after reading all of your suggestions and advice!

I thought I was being a bit dim and not quite understanding all my mum friends when they talked about putting their babies down at night.

She did actually have a routine and for some months she would get sleepy around eight pm and a bit of cuddling and milk and she was off. That's all changed since she was about seven months.

She has started to wake up continuously throughout the night, last night it was every 45 mins to an hour. So am v knackered! I think it is her teeth.

Thank you again everyone

lowrib - my daughter sounds just like your son!

Hi thingiebob. Dont be afraid to try a bit of calpol or nurofen if you think she's in pain. That's what it's for.
Also, and I think for 45 minute waking this doesn't apply, but for the overall sleep thing, the best advice I was ever given is 'if it's not a problem for you, it's not a problem'.

dont' discount the 9 month sleep regression, dd's lasted from 8 months to nearly 10 months. Their little brains are doing so much now, whizzing at a million miles an hour, so no wonder they wake up a lot. Once you know what's going on in their heads it makes it a little easier to bear... only a little mind :o