Sleep 'training' for all nightly wakes or just the 7pm one?

[sheeplikessleep]

DS2 is 8 months old next week. He has always been fed to sleep and finds it difficult to fall asleep by himself. He wakes about 3-4 times a night, about every 2-3 hours, we can sometimes get him to settle without feeding, through cuddling/rocking/singing, but sometimes not and I resort to feeding him again. His wakings are different every night.

We're going to start trying the 'gradual withdrawal' method, as I haven't the heart yet to do CC. We're planning on putting him down awake and patting his back and staying with him until he falls asleep.

Does anyone know or have any advice on what to do as/when he wakes in the night? Should we continue doing the same (i.e. patting to sleep), or is it better to stick with feeding him to sleep, until he gets the idea of falling asleep by himself at 7pm and then tackle nightly wakes? Trying to think whether it is better to be consistent for all wakings, or whether self settling at 7pm might reduce number of night wakings anyway (here's hoping!).

Thanks for reading. Any advice or information appreciated.

for our DD getting the first bedtime going to sleep bit, helped dramatically reduce the night wakings from 5-6 to at present 1-2. I read somewhere that how you help baby to sleep initially, is very important as helps form their memory of how they get to sleep all night. so if BF to sleep at 7, chances are when DS wakes at 8.30 and sees you not there, will cry for BF.

Try getting DH to settle him first if possible- we do this and after this I can still go in and BF at 2am for example, and lay straight back down until 6am. DD would never accept that before but seems to get it now. DH uses PU/PD and sings to her, but no rocking etc, she is 6.5 months and would drive her mad but singing or holding her hand thru the cot seems to reassure her.

good luck x

thanks so much for posting scarlett. thats interesting about how they get to sleep initially forms basis of nightly wakings.

that sounds very gentle how you've tackled it. how many pupds did your dh do initially? i'd love for that approach to work for us!! trouble is by bedtime, ds is so tired, he falls asleep on me v quickly. i need to try to catch him before he falls asleep and get him in his cot then.or if i miss it, wake him up slightly to then put him in cot.

thanks for posting

Hi there

to be honest although I was prepared for the first night to be awful (I went out and left DH to it) it only took 40 mins to get her to settle, and the wakings reduced that night.

We were very similar to you, DD would always fall asleep on me downstairs around 8ish, since we started this she goes to bed MUCH earlier, we start bath around 6.15, DH puts her to bed in cot for 7pm, and she usually wakes in the morning for 6.30am so must need the sleep. She still wakes once/twice in the night but is so much easier to feed and put down rather than holding her all night, before this we would end up co-sleeping but not out of choice.

We are not following baby whisperer word for word (!!) she still BF to sleep for naps if we are in the house, but is much more likely to fall asleep in car or pram now than before.

x

At 7mo our dd was self settling at bedtime but still waking 1-3 times in the night. I'd feed her one of those times. Like you, each night was different. I tried to push back the time of the feed but it didn't make much difference. I was confident that she was getting enough food in the day so decided to night wean.

We used a similar approach to scarlett. DP would go in with a beaker of water. Then he would do PUPD until he lost the will to live and I would take over.

The first night she was up for 70 mins from around 1am. The second night she was up for 50 mins at around the same time. It wasn't too hideous, as she never got really upset. You do have to be committed though and not cave in.

On the third night she slept through. Since then she has stopped needing us at night at all (touch wood and all that). Apart from when she had a cold, she has slept through every night for almost two months. Even when she has woken up when unwell, she hasn't wanted milk. We hear her wake in the night, she might cry for a minute or so, but she goes back to sleep.

Good luck.

ps Sometimes dd falls asleep during her bedtime feed- I usually wake her a bit before putting her down, though tbh even if she does feed to sleep at bedtime it doesn't seem to make any difference in the night.

Hi. I agree that the self settling at 7pm is key to how they settle for the rest of the night. DS was always rocked to sleep but we decided to do CC (like you said not everyone's cup of tea but did work for us). Before the 'training' DS would wake a couple of times during the evening but could be cuddled back to sleep quite quickly. After the 'training' this stopped completely which surprised me as we weren't even bothered about it, we were just trying to sort the 7pm bedtime!

I would try your 'training' just for the bedtime settle and see what happens - you might be pleasantly surprised!

scarlett - thanks for posting. ds does go to sleep about 6.45pm, but because his daytime naps are rubbish (although he naps 2 - 3 times, never for more than 30 minutes a time), he is so tired by the end of the day. your posts have reassured me though as to what we need to do. tonight, he was in bath at 6.15 and i was feeding him at 6.30. again, he fell asleep within 5 - 10 minutes (still feeding). i got up and vigorously winded him and took him out in light hallway to try to wake him, but he was out for the count, totally. i'm going to try again tomorrow night and make his feed even shorter. thing is, i don't want him not to have a full feed, but i need to catch him before he falls asleep.

theladyisnotfornapping - your post is so reassuring! not sure if i want to totally night wean, as we are doing baby led weaning, i am pretty sure he is getting enough, but that little voice in my head makes me paranoid i might be refusing him food when he is hungry. i guess if i start with the bedtime feed going down awake and if we are in same position in a few weeks, i go for full night weaning. by then, he should be on more daytime food.

dh is up with him now, as he has just woken up. he went up about 5 or 10 minutes ago and he seems to be calming down. i've said i won't feed ds before midnight tonight, and we'll try to settle him in other ways before that.

i just want sleep! nearly 8 months of no more than 2-3 hour stretch of sleep at a time is so draining isn't it. i feel bad that ds 1 who is 3 is missing out on an energetic mummy, as i'm constantly tired and ready for bed. it gets to the point where all our relationships within the family are strained, because dh and i are so tired. i even think ds1 is being affected, on the nights that ds2 is crying a lot, ds1 is always more tired and irritable the following day.

thanks for posting, apologies for essay!

Sympathies, sheep... I know the feeling, we're nine months in.

I found the putting-down-awake-at-bedtime thing has made the biggest difference. I refuse to feed if DD wakes before midnight, just cuddle her until she gives up crying and sucking at my arm or shoulder and falls back to sleep (usually takes about 20 mins). She still wakes 2-3 times per night, but that's a huge improvement from a minimum of 5 times. We're gradually making progress, too, although we still have bad nights (no progress with babies is ever truly linear, after all!)

I feed back to sleep after midnight still, but will look at some gradual night-weaning if necessary soonish. The 9 month sleep regression means I won't push any serious sleep training until that's passed, however.

The initial self-settle involved some crying as DD was so in the habit of feeding to sleep, but it only took a few days before she was going down awake without protest and MOSTLY she will get herself off to sleep within 10-15 mins of me finishing the feed and putting her in her cot.

Yes, it's fairly crucial that you find a way of doing that final feed so your LO both gets enough and isn't so zonked that he goes down asleep. Adjusting the timing of the final nap (even if it's a short one) may be the key. Also, feed with the light on, feed with him sitting up, switch breasts, sing lullabies loudly - I do all these to try and prevent DD conking out before she's finished.

Good luck!!
[hsmile]

thanks for posting inmaculadaconcepcion - good to hear similar thoughts, particularly on the importance of how they initially get to sleep. after ds fell asleep last night and i couldn't rouse him, we had the opposite tonight! i think it's because we were travelling at 5.30pm, he had a 30 minute nap in the car. so go forward to 6.45pm again (after feeding him) and i'd put him in cot awake, there he was then practicing his crawling pose, on all fours, rocking back and forth and blowing bubbles! little monkey. so i latched him back on and fed him until he got sleepy.

i did put him down sleepy but not asleep (i can tell as his body is more rigid as i put him in cot), he opened his eyes, lifted his head clear of the mattress (he lies on his front), then laid his head back down and slowly closed his eyes over about 5 minutes (i was patting his back). so, hopefully we might have a better night tonight. he's not woken up yet, so i'm off to slumberland myself.

thanks for posting, fingers crossed for a better night! dh is on hand to help out as it's the weekend too.