7 month ds's sleep went to pot at 15 weeks!

[Dalrymps]

Ds was sleeping quite well till around 15 weeks. He tended to have unsettled evenings from 7-9 and would cry for no apparent reason then would sleep, feed around 11 and then wake once for a feed veifrr wakin for the day around 7/8. This is from memory so might be slightly wrong and obviously there was the odd bad night.

Around the time he decided he didn't want to be swaddled anymore he went through what seemed to be a growth/ developmental spurt an started waking up to 5 times a night, by night I mean between 11 and 8 so 'our night'.

Since this time nights have been all over the place, totally random and no rhyme or reason to them. We literally have no idea what kind of sleep we're going to get when we go to bed.

We have tried different sheets, sleeping bag togs and sleepy suit thickness to make sure he's not too hot or cold.

A lot of times he feeds to sleep and gets carefully transfered back. if he's having a bad night it's just lots of rocking and crying and repeated attempts to put him down with him waking up when he hits the cot.

Last night he woke every hour from 2.40, he had a fee feeds and we gad the while rocking and settling thing.

We need to do something but I'm not sure what, I don't like the idea of cc. I don't even know why he's waking half the time although always try to feed unless it's blatantly obvious he's not hungry.

I spend most days in te house as I have an afternoon nap when the boys do just to catch up. Dh is knackered and finding it hard to function at work. Part of his job involves driving a delivery van and I'm worried he'll have an accident. It's not easy looking after a 2.9 yo and a 7mo when knackered too.

I thought it might get better when I started weaning but despite him eating well as having porridge for supper every day no difference.

He's ebf btw...

Can anyone help? It's difficult when his brother is in the next room and we don't want him to wake him but I'm willing to have some short term disturbance if it'll help a bit. I'd even be happy if he was waking once, maybe twice a night at regular intervals consistently...

Bumping for the evening crowd...

Anyone?

Pleeease?! I'm sat here with a thumping headache, I'm so so tired, I can't take another night like last night

Bless you, that must be so hard! I'm not sure I'm the best person to advise as I haven't experienced what you are going through, but I do have an 8mo dd who used to wake in the night and now (usually) doesn't. She was waking once, maybe twice for a feed and sometimes once needing settling- so not as much as your ds but who knows, this could work.

Basically we weaned her off night feeds once we were confident she was getting enough solids in the day, at 7mo. Once she got the message that there would be no milk at night (it took two nights) she started sleeping through. It seemed to stop the random not-hungry wakings too, and when she wakes now in the night we hear her settle herself. And within days she dropped her dream feed so now sleeps from 7pm-5.30/6am (can't have everything eh? ).

What we did was this: when she woke DP went in with beaker of water (which was rejected each time). Then he did pick up/put down with her, where you pick them up just until they stop crying then put them straight down. Repeat, repeat, repeat. It lets them know you are still there but means they are not relying on you to get them to sleep in your arms. Much nicer than cc imo, a bit stressful when it takes ages but in my experience it does work.

When DP got tired of doing PUPD I took over.

The first night she was up for an hour or so, the next night slightly less, the next night she had cracked it.

That was 6-7 weeks ago, and apart from a hiccup when she had a cold for a few nights, she has slept through every night. I never thought I would see the day...

The key, I think, is to teach them how to self settle without milk, without rocking etc. And PUPD is a good tool to achieve this.

ah lady, i completely sympathise - my dd is going through something almost identical and has been since 12 weeks. like yours she started off sleeping well, with one or two wakings but as soon as she hit the three month mark she will wake, on a 'good' night at least three times - a bad night is every hour or so. i also tend to feed back to sleep or rock and 'sssssh' until in a deep sleep as the transfer to cot tends to wake her.

now she is 26 weeks and while i haven't cracked it yet (up 10 times last night, gah!) i can tell you what we've tried and see if any of them work for you ?

try to make your life as easy on yourself as possible - can you co-sleep ? this worked for us for a while (she's not so keen on it now she has her own bed) and i was surprised how much difference it made just getting four hours straight sleep. if you can take her to bed with you after two a.m you'll find she may wake less frequently. i remember reading somewhere about a baby's sleep cycle entering the 'lighter stages' of sleep after two in the morning until about half four to half six. this is when my little un wakes often so after two is a good time to haul them into bed for a snuggle i found.

i've been taking her to see a cranial osteopath to see if the sleep cycle is a physical rather than emotional problem - the c.o seems to think it is a nervousness issue as dd can't self soothe so cries out for me to resettle her. again, i solved this by co-sleeping but was also advised to try to comfort and resettle without taking her out of her cot as a lot of frequent waking is a self soothing issue. do you have a comfort blanket/special toy or even a dummy you could use ? this may help.

we have a soother which fits onto the bars of the cot and plays some woebegotten pan pipe lullabies accompanied by a swinging frog and light show -for all i know she hates the damn thing but sometimes the sound of it is enough to send her back to sleep as she associates it with bedtime and rest. or you could try white noise ? for her daytime naps i have found a metronome very useful as it engages her focus if she is becoming hysterical and scatty.

lastly please bear in mind that this, like all other things is just a phase, however endless the nights seem now. there are so many variables with young babies (teeth, development, seperation anxiety etc) that it's hard to know what they are thinking from one day to the next. if cc is too intrusive for your other children you could try gradual withdrawal (think the baby whisperer is a good book for that, although i may be wrong. i've read a few!)

keeping my fingers crossed for you and your family, get an early night if you can!

x

Yes sorry forgot to say- the pick up/put down technique is from The Baby Whisperer, which in general I have found very useful.

Be warned though- like the vast majority of baby books it makes unrealistic grand statements like "at four months old your baby should not be waking in the night" etc. Remember this is largely bollocks, take what you need from the book and ignore the rest!

I have also heard great things about the No Cry Sleep Solution, and ironically bought it the day before the night our dd slept through. That's one book which doesn't make you feel inadequate in the slightest, though I can't vouch for its effectiveness, having never implemented its advice.

Thanks ladies. Yes I sometimes
Out white noise on on my iPhone and sometimes that works well and others not at all?!

He has had a nap on my knee this evening and now woken and cried like he's unsettled then was quiet for a while then started crying again. I've been holding him and now dh. Don't know what's bothering him
But looks like it might be another bad night. I hope not, I'm on my last legs.

Got the baby whisperer book and liked the series but have been too busy/ trued to read it... Must make time.

Gonna feed him again in a min and see if we can all go to bed early zzzz

Ok so we had a good night! He woke after I fed him before bed and was calm so we put him down in his cot and out some white noise on to relax him.

He was chatting away to his monkey comforter thingy for a while but started sounding agitated when I turned the lamp off and slowly started crying despite being obviously tired.

I did pupd a few times then he was still grizzling so I just placed my hand on him and he kept sort if working himself up a bit then calming down and nearly dropping off then repeating the cycle.

After 10 mins or so he dropped off which was at 11 then he slept till 2! I hanged him, fed him and he wouldn't settle again so dh tried the pupd but wasn't really sure what or why he was doing it and ds wasn't quite as patient with dh as is quite attached to me atm so I took over again. He seemed to be trying to get things into his mouth like his hands and his monkey thing (monkey head attached to blanket thing) and then settled within 10 mins again. He then slept till 6.30! He fed and is back off to sleep now whilst I'm up with ds1.

I hope it was down to the pupd/ hand on chest and not just a one off.

I think he must associate feeding himself to sleep quite strongly or being rocked. Hopefully we can break the association. I felt a little cruel letting him cry at all even though I was there comforting him but hopefully he'll cry less as time goes by, right?

Changed him, not hanged him!!

haha, i did wonder what you meant! i thought 'blimey things most be bad!'.

glad to hear last night was an improvement, and long may it continue. i don't know what side of 7 months your ds is on but if he's close to 8 months i read on another sleep thread that that is when they get the falling sensation just as they're dropping off that us adults get, and they can sometimes awaken again and again within a short space of time as it interrupts their falling asleep. i can't verify that obviously as i read it on here but sounds reasonable and may explain his wake/calm/wake/calm cycle.

also i was told by the c.o that some babies cry it out of their own accord - my little one doesn't go to bed easily despite having the same routine since she was two weeks old - and whether i hold her(i do) or lay her in the cot, or lie on a bed with her as she's going to sleep she will cry and cry and cry regardless, its their way of relieving tension. so don't feel bad, sometimes it's just what they need to do, and even when you're stood right next to them they will cry regardless.

good luck tonight!

He he yeah things not that bad yet!

Interesting about the falling sensation, he turned 7 mo yesterday..

He does seem to cry regardless of being held or shh'd or if I have my hand on him etc so I'll just try my best to be there and comfort him.

Hope it wasn't a one off!

Hi Dalrymps I have a just-turned 7mo too and we have had some horrendous nights...

Between 8 and 15/16 weeks she slept really, really well and I thought we had ourselves a good sleeper, then she hit the 4 month sleep regression and things went downhill, and stayed there!

Up until a few nights ago, DD would have me up countless times in the night - seemingly random wakings where I wasn't sure if she was hungry or not. I fed her each time, but made sure she was only drowsy and never asleep when I layed her back down.

Fingers crossed, over the last week things seem to have improved - a bit. One night she slept from 8pm - 4.30am and my boobs were in shock too. She now seems to be going for longer stretches of 4-5 hours at a time, so much better than the hourly/2-hourly wakings we were getting.

The thing that she is still doing, which is driving me slightly insane is not going back to sleep for up to 2 hours after some feeds. SHe doesn't do it all the time, but I can tell when she is going to do it if she is fidgetty when I am feeding her. Last night for example, she slept from 8/8.30 (can't remember exactly what time she went down) to 1.30 - but was then awake until about 3.15 when she went back to sleep until 8.

For the last couple of days, DD seems to have found it harder to settle, particularly for naps and keeps doing the 'I'm asleep, no I'm awake' thing. Maybe there is something to this falling sensation thing that has been suggested.

So, not really any advice, just empathy. Just wanted to say echo that these things do pass - even when you think you cannot take it any more. You are definitely not alone.

Glad you had a better night. It does sound like the hand on tummy/pupd worked (nb Baby Whisperer says to try soothing with hand and do pupd when necessary so it looks like you didn't even need to read the book, you just did it on your own!). Essentially he settled himself so didn't go to sleep in your arms/at the breast then wake up wondering where you are!

That is my totally uninformed take on things opinion anyway.

As I said in my other post, pupd really did work for us (for nights but not for naps, weirdly). It does seem a bit mad, so I can understand why your dh didn't quite 'get' it, but I know that once my dp saw results he was quick to jump on board.

Don't feel mean- your ds knows you are right there, you're not leaving him to cry, he just needs a bit of help to learn how to fall asleep on his own.

Here's to another good night tonight. Let us know how you get on. If you stick with what you've been doing I think you might be surprised by how quickly those 4-5 hour stretches- or even longer- become the norm.

ps have you tried establishing an evening routine and bedtime at say 7pm? Again you might be surprised at the difference it can make, it worked for us.

Thanks ladies, I'm going to carry on with the pupd thing and if we see consistent results then I'll start working on the bedtime routine to get him to bed earlier

Daytime naps seem to happen quite easily most of the time. At least that's something.

Hey just an update. An ok night..

We went to bed a little earlier so were all asleep by 10.30 after some pupd (he'd already fed). He woke at 1am and fed then woke so more pupd. He woke around 3 for another feed but this time just stayed asleep when put back in his cot. He then woke at 5.30 and I just do pupd again.

I did notice when he woke the 3rd time he seemed a little agitated and kept arching his back. I held him upright instead of in cradle hold and he was gulping/swallowing a bit and when I kissed his cheek I could smell that his breath smelt a little sicky and stomach acidy. Sometimes I wonder if he suffers with reflux a bit, not all the time or severely but he had always preferred being upright generally and he used to cry when younger a lot as if something was bothering him like that.

If he does have a bit of reflux is it something that he'll just grow out of slowly seen as though he's already 7mo and weaning?

Appologies for typos, on iPhone and it keeps 'correcting' me

My friends baby was similar and she was eventually diagnosed with silent reflux. It seems it is called silent reflux because they have few symptoms of reflux just problems whenever they lie down for extended periods.

You could try raising one end of the cot or putting a pillow under one end of the mattress. Or put them to sleep in a pram/pushchair slightly raised. Although not sure how this affects their spinal development.

My poor friend used to walk the streets at 3am with her DD in the buggy as it was the only thing that got her to sleep!

She did grew out of it though.

And I just remembered my DS had a small bout of reflux after antibiotics. I used to put him on his tummy to sleep - he was about 7 months old and could roll over on his own.

Interesting, thanks. We have raised one end of his mattress on occasion when he's had a cold but haven't noticed a huge improvement... Maybe cause he had a cold at the time so was up anyway or maybe it wasn't raised enough?

He's a jolly little chap apart from the frequent wakes. I can't figure out why he slept well till 15 weeks with one or two wakes then it changed?

Maybe he went through the sleep regression and got stuck? Maybe that ended and he started solids and they gave him more reflux? Oh I don't know?!