How do I break the overtired cycle?

[elsiewoo]

I am a first time mum to my 10 wk old ds who has had sleep problems from day one. He is not one of those babies who will fall asleep easily in any circumstance - I can push him in the pram or hold him for hours and he will stay wide awake. I am EBF and because of lack of sleep wants to feed at least every 2 hours. I am guessing that his main problem is overtiredness.

Daytime naps are a real challenge, he can go entire days without sleeping, despite my best efforts and by the evening is completely hysterical. At night, I have managed a sort of routine to get him to sleep by 7.30, 8.00 at the latest. He will sleep for 4-5 hours, feed, then wake every hour to hour and a half until about 7.00ish.

He spends the whole day yawning and is quite grumpy. Where do I start with improving his sleep - day or night?

Poor you - it is exhausting...he is still pretty young and maybe he is taking his time to get into a rountine. I would keep encouraging him to have a nap every couple of hours during the day, dim the lights etc, or a trip in the buggy. He is doing well to go 4-5 hours at night. Could you try a dream feed before you go to bed at night - say 10.30 - that might push it a bit more and then have one or two feeds during the night
Sure someone else will have more advice - my ds was a pretty poor sleeper, although dd was very good

Sorry it's so exhausting for you. A few things from my experience

Feeding every 2 hours is normal.
Hysterical evenings is normal.
Some babies just don't nap during the day

sorry that probably isn't what you want to hear... There is also no magic formula to 'make' or 'help' your baby nap during the day. Each baby is different and it's just a matter of trying different things, withing a loving and relaxing environment, to see what works for your DS.

Do you sleep with your DS at all? I found that my DS would sleep much better if I let him fall asleep at the boob then lifted him up so he was on my shoulder and then I would doze with him like that too. I think DS was becoming afraid of napping because he didn't like waking up and finding that I wasn't there. So for a while we did all his naps like that.

Also I found that REALLY winding DS helped. I'd spend ages patting his bottom/lower back to get the burps out. without this lying DS down seemed to really hurt him - hence the fear of being put down to sleep. There was one time that I was winding him having just gone upstairs to the bathroom and I put him down on the bathroom floor while holding something in the other hand so he was at a funny angle and up came this burp that I swear had a crust on it... It just seemed to me like it had been stuck in his tummy for weeks. He literally fell asleep then and there (and slept for 2 hours on the bathroom floor!)

Also if your DS is doing a 4-5 hour chunk of sleep in the early evening you MUST sleep then too. I'm sure you'd love to have some 'me-time' or time with DP but there is plenty of time for that later. You'll think so much clearer for the sleep and the grizzly baby won't seem so bad.

Fresh-air helped DS sleep once we'd got over the fear thing.... Can you walk round a local park or similar? DS slept best if he was in a sling (ring sling or wilkinet) while I was walking about in the fresh air.

Hope that helps. Good luck and trust me - it does get better .... :)

Focus on the night - objectively it doesn't sound too bad. Go to bed when he does if he's your first - it's your only chance. Keep the room dark and don't talk or make eye contact. (Yes you can change a nappy in the very near-dark).

Eat lots in the afternoon to make your breast milk as good as it can be early evening.

Days may need to wait until he is older and there will probably be some crying at nap tim for a few mins as he learns to self-settle. Mine both had morning and afternoon naps at this age - they just need to get into the swing of it

Hi, sorry to hijack this thread, I just wanted to ask KnitterNotTwitter a question....

Is it really true that some babies just don't nap during the day? My DD is almost 7 months old and she only takes 1 (or 2 if I'm lucky) 30 minute cat naps (on my chest) during the day. So many people are telling me there is something wrong with her and that she should be taking 3 to 4 several hour long naps during the day. You are the first person I've heard say that some babies just don't nap.

Should I be worried? The stress of what others are saying to me is really taking its toll and I'm finding it hard to cope at the moment.

dana my DD is 8 months and only has two half hour naps a day. My older DD did the same. I don't mind because it's what they did/do and they are beautiful sleepers at night. It's like anything - there's a range of "normal".

No advice though sorry elsie and hope it gets better for you soon.

My ds is also quite a poor daytime sleeper, and if he gets past tired he becomes too wired to sleep. I have found the sling (I have a Close carrier) is great for getting him to nap, or a walk in the pram (though this is more hit and miss). However, this does mean I can't do anything in the day while he sleeps!

I have started watching him like a hawk for signs of tiredness during the day, normally within 90minutes-2 hours of waking up he starts to yawn, rub his eyes and kind of get quieter and stare into space. I'm now taking him immediately into the darkened bedroom, feeding him, sshing and patting, giving him a dummy and lying down with him til he falls asleep. He starts to wake after about 30 minutes but I have been sshing/patting him back to sleep. Yesterday he suddenly took a 2.5 hour afternoon nap in bed for the first time ever He also then went to sleep at 7.30pm and slept for 8 hours, so I'm hoping better daytime sleep will lead to better nights.

So far today he kind of dozed and fed for 30 minutes this morning, then had a 1.5hour nap at lunchtime, and dp has just taken him for a brisk walk to hopefully get him to sleep again. I have my fingers crossed there'll be a positive effect on tonight's sleep too.

Thanks all for your replies. I think this shows that despite what all the books tell you, babies who don't nap easily are pretty common. I have driven myself crazy reading about how many hours he should be sleeping, how often he should be feeding etc etc and wondering what's wrong with him....

I have tried a sling, but he just screams when I put him in it. The pram works 50% of the time, the other times he just cries. He won't take a dummy (I've tried all kinds).

That really made me laugh about the burp with a crust on, I do think he has problems bringing up wind, so I will concentrate on that.

I am going to bed no later than 8.30 every night, which is rubbish for my marriage, but essential for my sanity at the mo.

Useful article on naps here: my baby will not sleep in the day

Does the car work at all? Could get expensive though I guess!

What kind of sling have you got? I had to try a couple to find one that suited.

Got a baba sling but can't get to grips with it at all. Also borrowed a baby born but he doesn't like that either. Thanks for the link bippyhippy the car works if I drive for long enough, he gets completely hysterical for the first 20 mins or so.

I didn't get on with the babasling either, ds didn't like being cradled. I think it will be useful as a hip carrier when he's bigger though. He seems to like the close carrier as he's upright with his head against my chest, and much more comfy for both of us than the babybjorn. I know lots of people love the moby wrap too, which is similar to the close, and a friend of mine uses a tricot slen.

Thanks for that moonunitalpha I'll check out those slings as I really like the idea of using one.

dana4ny yep - totally true. One of my NCT friends little boy literally would do one or two cat naps a day and that was it. It drove her bonkers as he liked to be carried all the time too - sounds similar to your littlun.

Don't worry that your child is different to the 'text-book' child - and definitely don't let the commentators get you down. You just need to find ways of coping while you go through this phase... It will pass and you'll look back fondly on the baby days when your baby loved being with you too much to go to sleep in case they missed you for a moment...

I've been wondering about this with 10 wk old DD. Most days now she will catnap for maybe 15 mins a go a couple of times a day. She has been going down ok at night and sleeping pretty well overnight, if I see her getting obviously over tired I can sometimes 'force' her to sleep.

Does it matter if she doesn't sleep much during the day or am I harming her by not being more forceful? She is quite contented, very alert and likes attention...grizzles when she feels ignored etc, perhaps she is just very aware and needs stimulation?

If she's happy then I wouldn't worry. With my ds, if we miss the tired window and get into overtired he gets manic and miserable.

I'm a bit confused on this one too...
I have a 10wk old son who catnaps during the day.
From books and talking to midwives I thought that good sleep during the day promotes good night sleep.
I was also told that he should not be up for longer than 90 mins at a time.
Even so, doing this he still gets overtired in the evening.

I don't have a lot to offer other than sympathy I am afraid. My son has always had a good couple of hour morning nap and an hour or so in the afternoon but this seems to have gone out of the window this past week - he is 14 weeks old. He is only napping for 20 mins then waking up crying unconsolably and takes ages to settle back off again and so the day goes on, hoping its just a phase....!