Should my 4m.o. DD have a sleep routine? It's currently all over the place!

[mammainlove]

I just dont know what to do. Last night my 4m.o. DD fell asleep at 8pm, tonight she was getting really manic and hyper at 10pm so we put her to bed,then she got really upset and wouldn't sleep. Other nights it can be anywhere between 8 and midnight and she might wake up and stay awake after 2hours, or sleep waking up just for feeds till the next morning. She co sleeps with us and i breast feed. It's making me quite tired and sometimes very stressed out. I dont know if to try to put her to bed at the same time every night, is a routine important at 4m.o? Do babies need routine, do they know what time it is? Should i put her to bed as soon as she starts to get manic? Sorry for long post and questions, i dont know who else to ask..

Do you have any routine in place at all?

My DD is now 6 mo and since day one we have had a routine in place, though the time she goes to bed varies...every night she has a feed, massage, bath, feed, bed. We follow this routine even if we are home later than usual etc and it seems to calm my DD and send the message to her that it is bedtime.

We always aim to be giving my DD her final feed around 7pm and she usually feeds herself to sleep (although since weaning she has been up later unsettled but thats another story...!). Some nights she is in bed at half 7, some nights half 8 but no matter whatwe follow the routine on the lead up to her bedtime.

Babies don't know what time it is - it is up to us to teach them the difference between night and day. It might be worth trying to put your Dc into bed when she gives signs that she is tired.

I can understand why you feel stressed out. I rely on having some time to myself in the evening, and it can be really difficult when you know your DC is exhausted and they refuse to go to sleep.

My 4 month old DD has just started settling herself by 8ish in the evenings but I think this is because we do, like harverina, have a little routine we go through before she goes down, although the times are not strict. She'll have a bottle, bath, maybe some more bottle, changed into pjs, put into her sleeping bag and then she is put into her moses basket awake with her musical thing on. She tends to fuss a bit but I just pop in and out every now and again and she soon stops.

With DD1 and DS we had no sleep routine, except bathing them every night to calm them. They were terrible sleepers until the age of 2 so there is lots to be said for having a routine in place IMO.

Good luck!

My DS goes to bed at 6:30pm,he's nearly 5 months.
But...he's always slept well in the evenings for some reason,so they are all different.

Having said that,4 months is a good age to start at least a bedtime routine in place so they know what's happening next.
Sounds like your DD is overtired to me.
As for daytimes at this age they need a kip once they've been awake for about 2 hours.

To ensure your baby learns the difference between night and day, start bedtime routine at the same time every night (ours has always started at 6pm with bed at 7pm - bath, bottle, books, bed). After bath we keep her upstairs with lights on low and a generally calm setting - this is not the time for chatting loudly and singing and playing. The calmness and low lights lulls the baby and they begin to learn that this is night/bed time.

We've been doing this since day 1 (even when she used to wake 2 hours later as a newborn). Any wakings after 7pm to 6am were/are treated as night time wakings and dealt with in low light and minimal fuss by us.

DD now a toddler and knows 7pm means night time and sleepy and morning time is wake time.

Sounds like she is overtired. If you instigate a 7pm bedtime as others have suggested (starting with bath and dim lights etc at 6pm), you may be surprised at the difference it makes. And you may get your evenings back too- everyone's a winner!

My DS has just turned 4 months and we've followed a "pattern" since he was about 1 month old: Feed, nappy change Play, sleep - roughly every 3 hours in daytime.
Come 6pm, we have story time, nappy off time, bath, then a good feed, ending sometime between 7.30pm and 8pm and he is put down awake and goes straight to sleep.
This week he has slept through the night until 06.30-07.00 3 nights in a row. It works for us! Good luck!

Wow...loving these success stories, wish a routine worked for my 6 month old, well done everyone!

totally with you op btw, ds is 6 months and can be so hyper when he is tired but refuses to sleep. We have tried to put a routine in place, bath, feed, bed etc but he just won't settle in his cot. I wish I had answers for you, I think a routine will help in the end. I know how stressful it is not having ANY time to yourself with a baby that doesn't settle.

Thank you everyone. One of the reasons why we put her to bed late is because she sleeps for at least 4 hours at first, so i go to bed with her and get that block of sleep in, as after that she wakes up every 2 hours for a feed. To be honest i'm a bit scared of having sleep that broken,being sleep deprived and then having to wake up at 7am, but of course i would if it really helped my dd. Also is it important to bath babies every day? I think babies skin is so delicate to be washing it in hard water that often. Thanks again everyone for your advice xxx

There's a big sleep regression around 4 months. More info here, here, here and here.

Being hyper is often a sign of being overtired. You could try soothing to sleep after about 1.5 - 2 hours of being awake - if she's awake much longer than this at a time she will find it harder to get to sleep and will wake more frequently. The trick is to get them off to sleep before the hyper stage starts (easier said than done, I know! :))

mammainlove, you don't have to bath your baby every day - it would probably be better if you didn't, however, my DD loves her bath and as she only ever has one before bed, she associates it with bedtime. I think that it is more important that you implement a routine that suits you - a bath does not have to be part of it. For example, your routine could be 1. massage 2. clean nappy/PJ's 3. story 4. feed 5. bed.

I think that if you want your DC to sleep in the early evening when she is older you would be better starting her bedtime routine earlier now. You don't want her to be sitting with you till 10pm when she is 2 years old! It sounds as though she is overtired - she really should be sleeping 11-12 hours per night.

No I don't bath mine every day,but his last feed is in his bedroom with dim lights and this is the only feed in his room apart for dreamfeed so I guess it is a sleep cue for him...not that he needs one as he's knackered by this stage.
My DS is a big boy,20ish lbs at nearly 5 months and he has a dreamfeed but isn't that hungry for his 7/8 feed.are u sure your baby is genuinely hungry in the night or is it a comfort thing?

No need to bath every night. To be brutally honest, when my DD was your baby's age she was having just 2 baths a week - one in the weekend and one mid-week; the rest of the times I simply flannelled her down with a damp cloth (topping and tailing). Now she's a toddler she has two baths a week and one long bath and hair wash at the weekend. Damp flannel as needed on non-bath nights.

This post has moved on a bit now, but for what its worth my DD (18 weeks) started a night routine once she began getting out of the evening grizzle phase (about 14 weeks). She began to seem tired enough for bed about 9 pm and so we started a bathtime about half an hour before, then into grobag, upstairs with low light and story books, feed til sleepy but not asleep with music box playing then bed with shh/pat if needed. Its taken four weeks but she now seems to recognise its bedtime and calms right down at bathtime and has naturally worked her way back to a 7.30 pm bath and 8 ish bed. I hoped that the same routine would help create good sleep associations for when we were not at home and help her learn to settle herself a bit.

In the night we dream feed around 11 pm then she's up once, sometimes twice and up for the day about 7.30.

In the day we have 3 naps with a routine of blinds down and walking and singing until sleepy then shh/pat if needed. Shes started settling to sleep on her own quite often now. I put her down after shes been up 2 hours - 9 ish, 12 ish for a long nap and 4 ish: this varies if we're out and about so I'm not rigid about it.

I'm only too aware how transient the semblance of some routine is tho'! :)

Thanks for all your responses. She sleeps approx 12hours each night and naps every 2/3 hours in the day. Mumcah ~ she might not be hungry every time she wakes up in the night,but she wont take a dummy and it's easier to feed her back to sleep. Orissiah ~ why do i need to use damp flannel so often? It's not like babies sweat a lot or get really dirty at 4 months old. We bath her once a week, she seems fine and clean and doesnt smell.

Mammainlove, I agree - no need to flannel her down every day - I just did it out of habit and also to give me something to do with her as I combined it with massage and tickles etc :-)

have any of you ladies more than 1 dc? i'm struggling with a routine for ds as am so focused on getting dd into bed (she's nearly 3) ds is now 13 weeks and i can tell he's started to be sleepier at night but i just can't focus on the bath/bed thing until at least 8 - and then i'm too knackered to be quite honest and this would mean no/very late dinner for us too!!! he just fits in round us at the mo but am aware he's nowhere near as settled as his sister was at this stage..mainly cos i think i had all the time in the world with her to reinforce a routine. any advice welcome!