8mo teething- it's all unravelling!

[explodingbosoms]

DD's sleep has been great over the past 6 weeks- so much so that I've offered others advice on here! That'll teach me to think I've got it sorted...

She's been sleeping through and self-settling like a dream for naps and bedtimes. We were still contending with short naps and early rising but was not that much of a big deal. We have/had a great routine established, basically following the Baby Whisperer EASY routine.

Now she is cutting her third tooth and it has all gone to pot. She was up for 2 hours in the evening last night, an hour after going to bed. Then she was up 4-5 times in the night. On the bright side she did settle with a quick stroke and a shush after each night waking.

She then took 90 mins to settle for her morning nap. I did everything "wrong"- rocked her, fed her to sleep, etc. She had calpol, bonjela, new nappy, white noise, the works. Eventually passed out.

Usually I would do PU/PD when she won't settle for a nap, or just go in and out reassuring her. But my instinct in this situation was to cuddle her and feed her for comfort. Now the routine is shot to pieces and I have the words of all the baby experts ringing in my head. I'm fearing that in the space of 24 hours I've fashioned several rods for my own back and she'll never settle herself or sleep through again!

Clearly I am being dramatic. But can anyone reassure me that this current teething hell does not mean that all of the great sleep habits she has established are gone for good? We've had teething traumas before but iirc her night time sleep was unaffected. I know some people would say I should throw the routine out anyway, but it does work brilliantly for us usually and she is normally a very happy and settled little beast.

Any wise words?

BTW she is 8 months old, in case you missed it in the thread title.

I can't reassure you, but I can sympathise - my 8mo dd was doing so so well, like you I had finally got her into a routine and she was self settling. I was so proud of myself!

Then last week she got an ear infection and now is teething ( I think she is cutting top as well as bottom teeth) and the routine has just disappeared. We also keep getting wakings in the evenings, and when she wakes she can sometimes be up for hours. We're feeding her in the night as it's the only thing that works, but I HATE doing it - she hadn't needed night feeds in ages and like you, I'm so worried I'm creating a precedent. In fact, I know I am - the more I feed at night the more she wakes, but what can we do?

It's a phase. Right?

God I hope so fruitsalad (and you are right, it is NOT pudding).

I'm now worried that she isn't teething at all, as what I thought was a sharp bit of tooth I know think is just a ridge in her gum, Gah! She is dribbling, gnawing etc though and there has to be something up, she can't just have changed overnight.

I didn't feed her in the night last night and thankfully she did settle each time she woke. But I did feed her at 5am, and felt very frustrated as I thought my days of sitting in the dark breastfeeding were behind me!

I'm sure the books would say to treat these sleep issues like any others and use whatever technique we've been using- but it's hard when they seem to be in pain....

Here's to better nights for both of us tonight. Keep me posted?

Yes, we can at least come here to complain.

I've been reading this www.thewonderweeks.com/ and apparently babies make a massive developmental jump at 37 weeks - like the one at six months, which can mess up sleeping patterns for a bit. Could be that happening a bit early perhaps?

It's depressing, that's for sure. DD was an awful sleeper when she was tiny and was so miserable because of it. I finally felt like I had solved it - she was even sleeping happily in her own room! Of course that is a stupid thing to think - babies have a way of always having something new to throw at you, don't they?

But I find the sleepness nights so much harder now than I did in the beginning, maybe because I have higher expectations, maybe because I'm not in a hormonal fug anymore, I don't know.

And at least when she was tiny I always had the option of bringing her into bed and feeding her all night while we both dozed. Doesn't work now, she takes the milk and then her eyes pop open and the next thing I know she's standing shaking the headboard. Not so cute at 3am! So I put her in her cot, she screams, I pick her up, she babbles, I put her in cot, she screams etc etc etc.

Just urgh. Can't believe a couple of weeks ago I was chatting to a friend about maybe having another. Not for at least 10 years. Or 20.

I know what you mean, I'd been thinking the sleepless nights were behind us and we could think about no.2! Hahahahaaaa [slightly hysterical emoticon].

Well today has degenerated further. She had one 30 minute nap in the morning, and when I put her down for her after lunch nap, I couldn't face another 90 minutes of yelling, so I just got her out of bed. She's quite happy now tbh, but I hear the baby books screaming "bad habits bad habits!!"

Interesting re the developmental spurt. The question is, do they then get back to "normal"? Or is there no "normal" whatsoever?

I think there is no normal. And I try not to get too wound up about bad habits (easy to say I know). We did everything the books tell you not to up until about 6 months, simply because ours and dd's lives would have been miserable otherwise, and I was still able to get her self settling in cot fairly easily - once she was ready for it.

So I think perhaps the way too deal with this it just to relax, do what we have to to keep them calm and happy, and hope it will pass. It will pass - they're not going to be doing this in ten years time!

I don't take my own adviee though - I stress and stress about night feeds, because I am so desperate for a good nights sleep. Not fair on her though, and bad for my mental health!

Anyway, we've decided to go back to doing a dreamfeed at about 10pm. It used to really help her settle for the night when she was younger. So fingers crossed. At least I will be reassured she isn't hungry.

Hi FruitSalad and explodingbosoms, do you mind if I join you?

I could have written your posts also, 8 m.o. DD has gone back to night wakings when she used to sleep through and self settle brilliantly. We didn't really have a routine that we set out of a book, but she settled into one anyway. Bed time is at 7:30 pm and she slept through to 5:30 am when she'd come into bed with me for a feed and then sleep together until 7:00 am.

It's been the past 4 nights and while the night wakings wouldn't have bothered me a few months ago they're getting a bit on top of me now. The first night I tried to settle her without feeding and ended up feeding after an hour, the second night the same and the third night I was so exhausted I just fed her straight away. Last night was slightly better (I'm on Australian time so it's midday here :)) and she self settled at 2 am but then woke for a feed at 3 am. Again I fed straight away. I really don't mind at all feeding if she's hungry but really would love her to go back to sleeping through!

The naps had gone to pot on the weekend but she's recovered those (thankfully). I'm wondering if there's some sort of growth spurt as she was having 4 BF's (plus 3 meals) during the day but has added 2 plus a night feed.

Like FruitSalad I'm trying not to get too hung up on bad habits (even tried feeding to sleep for naps on the weekend which I haven't had to do for months!) but she's again going to sleep without it so hopefully I haven't created too much of an association.

Not much to add but my rant and sympathies :).

Hello, how have your nights been?

Ours was, well, fine actually! She did her usual 7pm- 5.30am (groan- but I'll take a full night's sleep and an early start any day over the previous two night's shenanigans!). Self settled fine at bedtime, and for her nap today. Then woke up after 30 minutes . Never mind. I'm not sure there's much I can do about these short naps really.

She's very snuffly today so I think she has a cold on top of/rather than teething.

So relieved things are getting back to normal, at least for now. Just crossing everything that she stays more settled.

How are you both?

It's 9 pm here and DD went down to bed at 7:30 pm without the messing around that we've been having over the past few nights... fingers crossed for tonight's sleep!

Today's naps were good, she had 1 hour 45 mins for the first and 1 hour for the second.

Glad to hear that your night was better, I feel (perhaps stupidly :)) optimistic about tonight. I hope that your DD's cold doesn't hang around for long and that the good night's continue!

Explodingbosoms - seriously, are you me? Our night was fine too. I thought I would be a bit embarassed to come back to this thread actually! But nap this morning was rubbish, 35 mins and I was hoping she would make up for it this afternoon, but after spending 45 mins settling her she's just woken up - 35 mins later. I am waiting a few mins to see if she'll go back down but doesn't sound likely.

Hope your night is going well vegemite and you are catching up on some much needed sleep!

So, impossible question, how on earth do you get a baby to nap for a decent length of time?

Haha, I wouldn't be surprised if you are me, actually. I seem to have taken leave of my senses since having a baby and wouldn't put it past myself to unwittingly post as two different people.

I also was feeling a bit awkward about coming back to this thread- did not want to be big smugface!

Snap with the naps today- morning and afternoon were both half an hour long, even shorter than her usual 40 mins. Have had a thought about it though clutching at straws - I always put her down straight after breakfast then straight after lunch. I wonder if she needs 20 mins for her food to go down first, especially as she often has "windy" things like broccoli and lentils (god have become the mother I always made fun of- broccoli and lentils indeed). Will try putting her down a bit later tomorrow. Am sure it will make no difference at all, but hey.

At the moment I am leaving her in her cot until an hour has passed at each nap time, going in and soothing her every 1-2 minutes. She never goes back to sleep though. Rubbish.

Vegemite hope the night is passing/passed without a peep. I always think that if they settle well in the evening, the night is more likely to be settled.

Hmm, could it be the food? Mine had broccoli for lunch. Although, sadly, no lentils. Poor neglected child.

I was absolutely determined she was going to finish her nap this afternoon. So I stayed with her and eventually got her back down at 3. Hurrah! And then she woke at ten past. It's becoming a battle and she wins every bloody time.

She's knackered now. Sigh.

Good idea about leaving them in cot for the hour and checking though. I need a tactic - I veer wildly between feeding/rocking to sleep and trying to leave her to settle herself at the moment. Must be very confusing for her.

Explodingbosoms - Cannot give you any advice but you have my sympathy! I too have an 8 month old DD. She has never been a good sleeper. In fact she has never gone through the night. Ever.

She has fitted the Gina F routine as far as when she gets tired but never stays asleep. Wakes after half hour on lunch nap and needs re-settling. I can get her to do an hour and half and rare occasion 2 hours with about 3 or 4 re settles.

Night times anything from 4-10 times waking basically what is happening with yours.

She has just cut her first tooth this week and last night she woke only at midnight and 5am which is the best night ever for us.

I am wondering if all the anxiety and sleepless nights is down to teething and not something I am doing wrong......

Hope you get your good sleeper back and I am hoping for a second decent night! :)

Last night wasn't too bad - I'm wondering if she's just teasing me by improving in half hour increments. Awake at 3:38 am for a feed, but at least I got a block of a few hours at the start of the night. Then after a feed slept until 7 am.

DD used to be a notorious half-hour napper until about 1.5 months ago. I used to rock her to sleep, put her down and half an hour later she was awake and neither love nor money could convince her to go back to sleep again. Then she suddenly stopped wanting to be rocked to sleep. I took to cuddling her to sleep on my bed and leaving her there to sleep. She now has about 1.5 to 2 hours in the morning and 1 to 1.5 hours in the afternoon. After I wake her and get her up at 7 am I start trying to get her to sleep at about 8:45 am and she's usually off by 9 am.

She has lunch at 1 pm and I put her down for another sleep straight after, usually asleep by either 1:30 pm or 2 pm depending on when she goes down.

When I'm cuddling her to sleep I let her roll around and play on the bed for 5 mins and then I sing her a song and close my eyes and I have my arm around her. If I don't she crawls around the bed and, on all fours, breathes darth vader style in my face while I'm pretending the sleep, the ratbag :).

She would never nap for a long time before so maybe she was just ready to do so. Don't know if any of this helps or if I'm just rambling but I figure it can't hurt either :).

Hope you're all having lovely sleep-filled nights over in your hemisphere .

"Well today has degenerated further. She had one 30 minute nap in the morning, and when I put her down for her after lunch nap, I couldn't face another 90 minutes of yelling, so I just got her out of bed. She's quite happy now tbh, but I hear the baby books screaming "bad habits bad habits!!" "

Take the baby books and use them to prop up the head end of your babies cot. The elevation will help her immensely and the weight on them will stop any screaming about bad habits.

Phew! Now you can enjoy your baby.

As for Normal????

It doesn't really exist. Individuality, that does exist. Routine as related to small children is something which develops and changes both gradually and in sudden spurts.

General routines?? MOST babies give up their morning naps for a slightly longer afternoon nap between 7 - 10 months and then the afternoon nap gradually phases out between 2-3 years.

This is a very bizarre thread, it seems as tho many of you are trying to make wide awake children go to sleep.

Can I ask why you want your children to go to sleep in the day when you are having to resettle them so many times? Are they not communicating with you? When children are tired, they sleep!

kickarsequeenofthedamned, thanks for your advice. You make a reassuring point about routines, it's very easy to get hung up on them. But as you say, all babies are different. And my dd is a baby who is quite often very tired (rubbing eyes, yawning, grizzling) but finds it difficult to go to sleep or to settle back to sleep when she wakes up from a short nap. If she doesn't sleep well in the day she is very tired and upset by bedtime. I'm trying to help her get the rest she needs, and I don't find that a particularly bizarre concept.

Last night was a bit tiring- she was up from 2am-3am, poor thing. She has a streaming cold (her first one, and I'm not coping with it very well!), which explains why she's been so unsettled this week. Don't think it was teething after all but this cold brewing. She seems better this morning and has been asleep for an hour so that's good. Bless her.

Vegemite, I couldn't help but laugh at the Darth Vader breathing! Glad your night was ok.

Littlebear I think it's time for us all to stop thinking we are doing something wrong! We are all trying our best. I weaned dd off night feeds at 7mo and she became so much more settled- until she got a cold that is! We did it in a very gentle way with no crying-it-out and it worked for us in two nights. Can advise if you like? (Or is that annoying?)

fruitsalad how are you?

My DD doesn't sleep when she is tired. That is the problem. I wish she did. She fights it and fights it - but I promise you she is exhausted. She will fall asleep sitting up in her cot rather than lie down and sleep. She has always been like this - as a newborn she could literally go all day not sleeping. I thought she had colic, she screamed so much, but in hindsight I think she was desperately overtired.

Things are better now, but for her to be a happy baby, she has to sleep enough. And yes, that changes over time, and I do watch her cues. But sometimes she NEEDS to sleep and doesn't want to. In which case I do whatever I can to get her to sleep.

Do you honestly think we are so stupid that we are ignoring our babies cues and putting them to sleep because a book told us to?

Crossed post exploding bosoms!

I'm fine thank you - had another good night. Well, she did - I couldn't sleep. Typical.

She's over her ear infection now so things seem to be settling down, for the moment. We're away this weekend though, so will see how that changes things.

Fruitsalad, believe me- I have met quite a few people who have done exactly that.

I have even met one lady who took her dd aged about 1 week to the gp and told them there was something wrong with her dd because she poo'd at night had only used 10 nappies the previous day instead of 12 wouldn't sleep if she was put in her crib at the right times and wouldn't take a bottle exactly on the hour. I have also had people say they've broken their baby because the baby slept through the night once and didn't do it again.

They are all different.

Believe me I accept they are all different,
DD1 would only sleep if she was physically stopped from running about, if I put her down for a nap she would scream until she vomitted even with me right by her and constantly doing PU\PD.

If I wanted her to go to sleep I discovered putting her in the buggy in the lounge while I sang songs in the kitchen so she knew I was still about would have her asleep in about 5 mins.

DD2 would only go to sleep in my arms,or in the buggy, que very careful transfer into the cot!

Ds1 would only go to sleep if fed, but would then sleep for up to 4 hours. So feed to sleep and then transfer to cot.

Ds2 was 2,3,4 routine from about 2 weeks old, now at 14 months he will only go off in his cot if utterly exhausted, but calm. Otherwise he will go off in the buggy / car but cannot be moved.
I've had to unstrap the carseat to keep him asleep if I get home and he's only just dropped off. He prefers to be fed to sleep even at 14 months.

So, yes, all very different.

Unfortunatly every book gives you 1 method of dealing with "sleep issues" and that may not suit your child - it might suit the next one but not this one and its far too easy to get hung up on what the book says and not what the baby is trying to tell you, especially if you are exhausted. Also several of the books instill a high sense of expectation that "this is what your life will be like, this will be your routine" It doesn't always work that way.

All I'm saying is if you are getting stressed that your baby is not conforming to the book or that the methods to get your baby to sleep don't seem to be working then ditch the book and go by your babies cues.

You could check out the natural waking rhythym 2,3,4 routine and see if your baby is following that, lots do without anyone realising, sometimes catching on to their natural routine is the only way.

hth.

ExplodingB - Not annoying at all!! She dropped all her night feeds about 5 half months when I had to stop bf (whole other issue!)
Have ruled out hunger.

She only woke at 10pm and 4am and 5am this morning. Would not go back to sleep then.

I think she comes into a light sleep and cannot self settle.

She is really active even when tired and finds it hard to lay still. If left she is gets really cross and cries for ages and when overtired it is a nightmare.
Which is my fear.
When afternoon nap goes wrong and she wont re settle she naps again about 4pm for 20 mins as she wont make it through till bed time.
If I dont nap her at 4pm she is ratty all afternoon and overtired by bed time and will wake loads (very hour and half)

She has half hour to 40 mins at 9am.

KickArse - You really knew someone who did that? Amazing.

I do do a rough 2,3,4 routine, didn't get that from a book, I got it from her. We only really started doing a routine at all at about five months because I was adamant routines and baby experts were ridiculous etc etc. And I think for the most part, and for most babies, they probably are. But I honestly believe now that if I had tried to put my DD in a vague routine at weeks old rather than months old, we would have all been better off. As is was I just got on with my life and hoped she would learn to sleep in pram/sling like all the other babies. But she didn't, and it was only when I started to put her down in her own room, in her cot, that her sleeping really improved.

If you had told me before she was born that I would be like this I wouldn't have believed you!

So, yes, they are all different.

Btw, the funny thing is, the 2,3,4 routine that lots of babies seem to end up in on their own is rather like the routine of a certain baby expert who gets a very hard time here on mumsnet! Although obviously minus all the mad advice about expressing at that time and eating at this. Which is probably why so many people swear by her.

FruitSalad....

Guilty :) Dumped the breast pump, I even bought a bloody blackout blind!!

Just the times of routine worked for DD.

LOL! Yes fruitsalad I really know someone who did that, admittedly she's completely bats (imo), but that is exactly what she did. She had spent the last couple of months of her pregnancy telling me that her baby would be on routine from the moment of birth. She wouldn't have sleepless nights or be sitting for hours feeding each evening.

TBH I was quite worried about her. I was glad she did go to the gp, she ended up with quite bad PND and I hold the whole "routine expectations" to be responsible to a degree, especially as with her 2nd child she co-slept, lugged the baby about in a sling and didn't get PND. Obviously there are lots of reasons that people get PND, but in her case The routine book shouting at her from the corner did not help!

For some people it works and for some it doesn't.

I don't have a problem with routines for babies, but I hate seeing people getting stressed because their baby isn't conforming to a routine book, feeling like a "failure" or thinking that they have made a "mistake" or done something "wrong". I think it could easily ruin a very special time and that would be a great shame.

KickA

I am currently on medication!! But I have put the book away now. :)

Dont think I could cope with having baby no.2 :(

LittlebearH, you could you know :)

I know lots of people who have had pnd. There are some things that you can do to help protect yourself 2nd time round if you want to go for it. If ever you decide to have another ask me. I'm often about.

Well done on putting the book away :)