Stopping breastfeed - sleep association - anyone managed it successfully?

[sheeplikessleep]

DS2 is nearly 7 months and has always woken at least twice a night. However, his sleep is getting worse and worse and last night he woke every 30 minutes to an hour between 12am and 6am. He is EBF and has done 3 weeks of BLW (he is starting to take food now, as his poos have changed in last week or so). He is gaining weight well and now on 75th centile.

He is always fed to sleep and I don't let him cry. But I am getting to the point of being desperate for some shut eye and feel like a zombie most days. I wouldn't particularly mind waking once or twice a night, but when its getting to 6 wakings a night, I'm shattered. I need to do something different, its affecting how much time and energy I give to DS1 and my relationship with DH.

I dread the idea of CC. Partly because when he is tired, he screams so much (when he's fallen asleep in car seat, it's been after about 20-30 minutes of high pitched screams). I wouln't ming id it was whingry crying. But, I am wondering whether to sit with him and pat his back or sing to him, after putting him in his cot, fully fed etc. I know he'll scream like a banshee.

Any advice or experiences very appreciated.
Thanks for reading.

It may not cheer you too much, but DS still wakes every night (actually he has slept through 6 times this year) and I only managed to stop feeding him back to sleep in the night the last 2-3 months. He is 21m.

he was waking at least 4 x night at that age and I found trying to get him back to sleep without a feed just didn't work, so I gave up trying for a long time. Both mine got worse around the 6-8 month mark before eventually improving, developmental stuff seems to make things worse IME - stuff like learing to sit/stand/pull up etc.

I think he is too young for CC (and I don't believe in it personally) and I think aiming for a gentle approach like patting or rocking as a step away from always feeding to sleep is a better plan. But TBH I still feed DS to sleep at bedtime, as he knows I have the breasts and won't tolerate being put down without some. DH can put him to bed fine though as the temptation isn't there to tease him

This is a classic age for a sleep regression - my dd2 (now 12 months) did exactly the same. If you can stand it for a couple of weeks you may find it resolves itself.

If you want to tackle it now, CC isn't the only solution, you could try introducing a dummy (that's what worked for us in the end albeit intermittently even now) or offering water from a bottle. Eventually dd2 started to self settle because she lost the bf/sleep association but it did take time. To start with I would take her out of the cot, give her a dummy and cuddle her but not bf - once that was established and she settled well then I would pop the dummy in her mouth and pat/stroke her in her cot - next step was dummy and stay where she could see me then finally all she needed was the dummy back in and she would go straight back to sleep. Took a couple of weeks in total.

If she won't settle I will still bf her during the night occasionally - sometimes it's quicker and easier than battling to get her back to sleep without feeding. But on the whole her sleep is far less broken, her tendency to scream has settled because she is less tired and we are all a bit bouncier during the day.

thanks for posting. the developmental thing is interesting. he isn't sitting up yet, but practically crawling, so maybe that is interfering with his sleep. mind you, it feels like i am alway using an 'excuse' when others ask about his sleeo... growth spurt, teeth, ready for food etc.

can i ask, how long did you try rocking yours to sleep, before you went back to feeding? i fear the same, that we'll be rocking or patting for hours for nothing.

his daytime naps are crap too - he sleeps for 20-30 minutes a time.

my mum has offered to have him for a night, if i give expressed milk and she says she'll cope, he'll take it if he's hungry. to give me a break.

didn't realise how lucky we were with ds1's sleep.

tigerfeet - did you introduce dummy at 7 months ish? i'd considered it, but discounted as i wondered whether he'd take it at his age now. its reassuring it took just two weeks for you. your solution looks like something i could do. it is so difficult to think of things when so sleepy and fuzzy brained!

I did manage to drop night feeds with my dd, at about 10 months, by rocking in my arms instead. Took aaaaages to begin with and I ended up feeding her in desperation some nights, but it worked eventually. Have recently also dropped bedtime feed by same method.

HOWEVER (big however) she still wakes 2-3 times a night. And she is 15 months. Think it is teeth .

LiegeAndLief - when you say ages, how long? I'm trying to decide on what to do, I know every baby is different, but it gives me a feel for if I've got the patience - cheers

He sounds very much like our DD - only sleeps 30mns during the day, and still wakes a fair amount during the night, she is 5 and a half months. She does however need to have a little cry to get off to sleep, but only ever 3 or 4 mins, and generally not really screaming or anything - however, there have been times when I have thought right, I am going to pick her up, shes obviously not tired - and look over and she is asleep - for some babies I think it can be a bit like this.

I used to feed her to sleep at the start of the night, now she manages most nights to get herself off to sleep - she sucks her thumb, we did try a dummy but it wasn't as good, kept losing them!

We did it using the pantley pull off - and we have always used the same music box at bedtime regardless. During the night I always fed her to sleep, and co slept, but I am having to stop, my back is killing me as I stay in the same position all night. so I do the pantly pull off then too, and sometimes can feed her, put her back in the cot, and she will roll over and suck her thumb, and off to sleep. However this has taken since maybe 4 months to do. she still wakes at least twice, but they are pretty short wakings - if I fall aseep while feeding her and leave her in with us in bed, then I find I am waking a lot more thn that, so having her away from me in a cot must be stopping her waking so much - we are moving her to her own room gradually to see if this helps with the wakings.

Hope that helps, sorry for going on! if you google pantley pull off, or on here you will find lots of info, the no cry sleep solution was a good book to read I found, it does seem to work, but takes perseverance!

Watching with interest. I have a similar thread on here (I think there are many of us!)

DS is 5 and half months, EBF, trying dome solids, no weight issues. Always been fed to sleep and only other way sleeps is in car or by rocking occassionally. We are co-sleeping, it has been a lifesaver tbh, and meant we all got sleep in those trying early weeks. Space has now become an isue in bed and I too am getting a bad back from staying in the same position all night.

It is true that is such a natural thing for baby to fall asleep nursing. I find the idea of CC horrific, which incidentally is not rec ommended for babies under 12 months as they are unable to understand that you may return, and are only aware of the then and now. For me, there has to be a middle ground which encourages some element of self settling without leaving them to cry.

I've tried No Cry Sleep Solution but found this geared up for continuing to co-sleep. I've been recommended PU/PD by the Baby Whisperer - anypne any thoughts on this?

Good Luck everyone!

Oh it's a nightmare! I think it's such a common one though if you are EBF and especially if they're not taking in lots of other calories from other sources.

No real advice except that it does change - we were in the same boat with feeding to sleep, and around 12 months we tried the jay gordon night-weaning method (easy to find on google) but DS was still too young - but it worked like a dream at 16 months, and now at 20 mos he is (mostly) in his own bed. But might not be useful for you as it is very geared towards co-sleeping.

Interesting about the dummy - worth a try I would say. If you are starting solids too, you could consider bedtime formula which has cereals in it. I tried this but too late for DS, he just wanted B milk.

Take your Mum up on her offer! He will cry but will be with someone who loves him, and you will get a much-needed break. I have to believe that babies will sleep when they really need to! Good luck

Hi Sheeplikesleep (nice name!!)

I have written on precious cargo's post also, but up til last Friday DD was fed to sleep every night/nap, would come to bed with me at 11am (after waking 8/9 sometimes 10pm) and then we would co-sleep and she would latch on and off all night...

We needed to get our sleep and bed back so Friday night I went out (shock horror!!) and DH gave DD a bottle of expressed milk before her bath, and put her to bed. Used Baby whisperer's Pick up put down when she cried, it took 40 mins to get her to settle. She woke twice but was easily settled. I had to be out as I too cannot take the crying at all, but DH is fab with her, rubs her back, talks to her, picks her up, and tonight it took 10 mins to settle her to sleep in the cot. DH feels fab to be involved and a massive sense of achievement and DD has never slept better in her 5 months. I kept reading that they will grow out of the wakings etc, and I do believe this- but for our sanity we needed to encourage this..... good luck x

I've mentioned PUPD to DH this morning who said he'd try anything at the moment to get DS2 to sleep better. I said it will probably be back breaking (I don't think I'd manage picking him up and putting him down for 40 minutes), but he said it'd be short term pain for long term gain. I'd feel much more comfortable with PUPD to be honest, although it seems like physically hard work. I'd like to combine it with some sort of back patting, as that seems to help settle him (when he's nearly asleep).

He woke at 9, 12, 3 and 5 last night and the 3am feed, I fed him, then put him down, to which he woke up crying. I patted his back, whilst he cried for about 5 minutes, then he fell asleep. For the first time ever

Can I ask, for those who have gone through this, what did you do about night feeds? I am tempted to do PUPD for 6pm feed, then not feed again until midnight. I don't like the idea of not feeding him at all until morning, when he is used to 4 or 5 feeds a night. But then, it seems a little inconsistent. I just wondered what others did? For all night wakings, or a more gradual approach? Thanks so much for posting. It's reassuring to know that, despite SILs comments of 'have you not got him sleeping through yet???!!', it's not uncommon.

Thanks

DD was used to lots of night time feeding and this was a big worry of mine. In the couple of days prior to starting I made an effort to feed more in the day/at least offer BF every 2 hours, and when we actually started I was surprised as she has got into a habit the last 3 nights of going down for 7pm, waking at 2 or 3am (yuck) for a quick BF but then she settles with no need for PU/PD, then she wakes at 6am which is too early for me to get up so again another feed then down without PU/PD.

For her night feeds I just wait for her sucking/breathing to slow right down, and lay her back in the cot. drowsy but not dead asleep like I used to. I am going to introduce/try a dreamfeed tonight so I can hopefully stop the 2am feed.... will keep you posted, good luck

x

sheeplikessleep, it really was ages - I paced the room for 1.5hrs with her on more than one occasion and she is not a slight girl! I found it less back breaking than PUPD though (and less heart-breaking - no screaming). It gradually got shorter and shorter though. Used to take me up to 45 mins to settle her with bf, and sometimes she woudl wake again when I put her in the cot, so it was only maybe 4 or 5 days before it became quicker to settle her in my arms.

I was pretty sure she wasn't hungry though, as quite often she would start sucking, really settle and then get all annoyed when the let down came, like she didn't really want the milk. 7 months would definitely have been too soon for her to go without a night feed altogether, and if your ds has only been BLW for 3 weeks then maybe a bit soon to go cold turkey on the night feeds? Any chance you can cram more into him during the day?

Just thought, are you sure he isn't cold? My ds's sleep improved no end with a long sleeved vest and an extra blanket (some years ago now, he still likes lots of layers!).

My DD was still waking and wanting to feed at 13 months and I just couldn't do it anymore, I was so tired - her cot was still in our room, so we moved her into her own room and instead of me, Daddy went in - there was no way she would have let me settle her without a feed. We were incredibly lucky - DD didn't put up much of a fight really - and by the 2nd night she was sleeping through and I never fed her to sleep again after that.

LiegeandLief - yeah, I think it's too soon to go cold turkey on night feeds, but I'm thinking that after his 7pm feed, we try to discourage another feed until midnight (he is waking at about 9pm at mo). Worth a try. His weight was plateuing off, but he's jumped from just above 25th to just below 75th centile, over 2lbs in 2 weeks, so he is getting enough (probably contributed by all the night feeds!). Trouble is he seems hungrier at night than in the day. He is barely on more than 5 minutes in the day, before being distracted by his brother etc and definitely isn't hungry at 6 or 7am. I am not going all night, but I want to try to space them out a bit, to encourage more hunger in the day. I'm not sure how much food he is taking, but his poo has changed to 'solids' poo, so I think he is doing OK on BLW.

I have also got put more layers on him the last few nights too, so I don't think he is cold.

DH is away with work next week, so I think we are going to start next Friday night, to pat him back to sleep, singing, rocking etc and I'll feed him through night, but not to point of being asleep.

Thanks all for posting

sheeplikesleep ugh, yes, I remember this stage with painful acuity. And yes, we did manage to break the connection - I think my DD was about 12 months old but possibly the measures we took then would have worked earlier...

I bought the much-lauded Elizabeth Pantley book, No Cry Sleep Solution, and followed it. It was very helpful indeed. We didn't co-sleep and have to say that unlike PP I thought the advice took account of different sleeping arrangements..

Typing quickly (cos I need to go and get in the bath....) we:

• Sent in DP for night wakings instead of me - he had to rock and pace but DD seemed to get the message that there was no boob on offer in the night and so therefore was better at self-settling.

• tried to get DD to release the boob before she was completely zonked out (there is more in the Pantley book about this technique). There was some crying, but persevered.

• put DD in cot, patted her and stayed with her till she went to sleep. She cried. It took an age the first night/ nap. Took an age (although less time) the second night, got progressively better until she could just go down on her own.

Whether it was anything we did, or just developmental readiness I can't say, but she was down to only one or two wakings by 13 months, and sleeping through by 18. Bliss.