quick question on controlled crying

[Slave2Babe]

we've got to the end of our tether and decided to try controlled crying. DD is waking 5-6 times per night and not settling herself.

i understand that controlled crying means that we need to put DD down awake and let her go to sleep by herself. we go in 2,5,10,15 minutes building up to 20 minutes.

well 2 questions really ...

1. when we go in do we calm her and only leave when she is comforted - or do we go in, lay her down say some soothing words and a bit of a pat and then leave (even if she is still crying)?

2. this is all well and good for the bedtime routine, but what do we do when she wakes at 2am? do we repeat the same process? do we build up from 5 minutes again or leave her to go for 20 minutes? or do we comfort her until she goes off to sleep until the bedtime routine is cracked with her going to sleep on her own initially.

i'm a bit stressed out with other stuff and i need dp's support so i think we will try starting this at the weekend. i'm really not looking forward to it tho

Leave, even if she is still crying.

1. Exactly as you describe. You can talk to her etc, but don't pick her up, and don't stay in there until she's asleep. Often babies get more upset when they realise you're not going to pick them up.

2. At 2am, you do the same thing, starting at 5 minutes, assuming she's not used to feeding in the night.

How old is your daughter? How does she normally fall asleep? Waking 5-6 times per night has to be hard for everyone involved.

For question 1 - you go in lay her down and say 'it's time for sleep' and tuck her in.

For question 2, you have to start again from 5 minutes.

This should only last a few nights, she'll 'learn' to go to sleep by herself even in the middle of the night.

Good luck - it's bloody hard but stick with it, it really is worth it.

Oh, and normally (at least by Ferber) you increase by the same number of minutes, so, 5, 10, 15, and only increase twice - so keep coming in every fifteen minutes until she's asleep (or only grumbling/muttering a bit). But the next night, you'd do 10, 15, 20.

(It doesn't have to be 5, 10, 15, it can be 2, 4, 6, then 4, 6, 8. Whatever.)

thank you all!

dd is 10 months. i stopped b/f her during the night about a month ago and she has got used to going back to sleep without relying on the feed - but only if i sit with her and shush and pat her to sleep.

bedtime routine is tea at 5:30pm, bath at 6:30pm with bedtime story with her in her cot, b/f and then its bedtime.

i stopped putting her down asleep some time ago but either myself or dp has to sit with her until she drops off to sleep - normally takes about 15-20 minutes.

Oh dear - and you have to do that 5-6 times a night! Ok, controlled crying may well suck for a few nights, but it will fix things in less than a week. You have to steel yourself and be tough, be ready for some real work (it can take a few hours), but you should see results pretty fast, and you should be sleeping through yourselves again, soon.

we're pretty much at breaking point and its putting so much pressure on our relationship - we're both really snappy!

we're prepared for the hard work but i dont think there's anything else we can do.

even if we dont get her to sleep all the way through it would be good to get a few hours sleep!!

Are you sure she's not teething Slave2babe?

My DS's (11 mnts) bedtime routine has been totally whacked out of kilter by teething. It's pretty awful for them.

Saying thet. DP is trying to convince me about CC. I don't know if I can bear it though. He screams and screams and just keeps getting up and thats when we're in the room with him. We are really at our wits end. How do you bear teh crying though? It's so counter intuative to leave them and my breasts hurt! (I'm still b/feeding)

I really feel like he'll be damaged emotionally insome way and will not trust us in the same way if we do this. Sorry, I'm in such a quandry about this... Really, how do you do it? And when do you know enough is enough?

CC is hard. I don't think it's good for kids. But if it means they start getting a full night's sleep, and a patient and happy well-rested mum (and dad!), then I think the benefit outweighs the harm.

MT, your DS might be screaming more because you are there, IYSWIM - he knows you can hear him, and see him, and he wants you to pick him up etc.

The problem with starting CC is, if you leave them to cry for a while (going in to visit etc) and then give up and cuddle them to sleep, or whatever they're used to, then you've taught them to scream for that long if they need to, to get you to pick them up. So I don't think you should start CC unless you're ready to carry it through (at least for one night).

S2B, CC should get her sleeping through. Your DD has learned to fall asleep being shushed and patted. She wakes in the middle of the night, several times, because she (like all of us) naturally surfaces into a near-waking state during the night, to check that nothing has changed. And you're not there any more, patting and shushing! So she wakes, upset. It's like how you'd feel if someone removed your pillow in the middle of the night.

we're planning on starting this on saturday night when we're a bit more relaxed ...

having said that, last night was really good! i put dd down in her cot. she stood up and fussed for a bit. i calmly said "night night". she lay herself down, pulled her fuzzy frog towards her, snuggled up and went to sleep ... i was sat on the bed on the other side of the room. no shushing or anything ...

she woke twice in the night. the first time she had some juice and went back to sleep without too much trouble. the second time took about 40 mins to get her back off to sleep but very little crying ...

maybe i need to be more patient?

If you are still giving her a drink in the night it could take you a while longer.

until a month ago i was still b/f at night time.

should i cut out the drink completely now then?

I would. If its been a very hot day and you think she is genuinely thirsty then offer water, but nothing else.

1. JUst lay her down, soothing words (what ever you say when you first put her down) and then leave - even if still crying. The fact that you've gone in shows her that you haven't forgotten her, and if you wait until she's comforted she'll learn that it works.

2. Repeat the process as from the start.

We did this with DS1 at 6 months old as he was waking every hour for a 1hr breastfeed /

Amazingly although he took AGES to go to sleep the first night, he didn't wake up at all! Well he stirred, but before I had a chance to go in and start the process again he'd gone back to sleep.

Here's what my HV at the sleep clinic recommened.

2 minutes - stand outside the door anxiously checking your watch

5 minutes - go down and put the kettle on, make a coffee

10 minutes - go and drink the coffee

20 minutes - open that bottle of wine

It worked too - I didn't get as stressed with it as the wine had a wonderful 'soothing' effect LOL

S2B, I generally leave a sippy cup of water in my kids' beds if it's hot, so they can get a drink in the night without waking me. (My DS1, who is toilet trained, seems to have an enourmous bladder, though, so this doesn't seem to cause problems with staying dry at night.)

If gradually reducing how much you do to help her sleep is working out for you, you might want to just carry on with that. It doesn't sound like you're far from being able to say goodnight and leave her to it. And it sounds like (so far), the less you do to soothe her to sleep, the less often she wakes in the night.

I found once DS 'learnt' to go to sleep on his own, the night drink soon disappeared as he could go back to sleep if he did wake up.

well last night was a bit of a non event ... we were all prepared to start the controlled crying.

i gave her a b/f at about 7pm like normal. she'd had a busy day so was quite tired. i put her down in her cot awake, said 'night night' and gave her a kiss.

i went into our bedroom to tidy some stuff away - expecting her to start crying as soon as i left the room - but all was quiet! i put my head round her door after a few minutes to see her snuggled up and out for the count

she woke at 3am and i went in to her, said 'night night' ... she lay down and went to sleep. woke again at 5am. she settled and slept for another hour then decided it was time to get up!

we'll see how she goes tonight

Have you started yet S2B? How's it going?

Hi. Monkeytrousers. We still havent had to do the controlled crying . Things just got much better! I really didnt want to do it - was only because both myself and dp were so exhausted (and like you it was dp that was trying to push the issue).

Because the nights have started getting colder I invested in a new grobag for dd. This seems to have helped things a great deal.

DD does wake but the grobag stops her from standing - and stops her getting really worked up - which was what stopped her being able to settle herself.

I heard her wake once last night, but after less than a minute of fussing (not proper crying, just really sleepy fussy noises) she went quiet. I crept in to see her all snug and cuddled up to her 'froggy'.

I'm hoping that this will continue and that she can continue like this .

After the advice on this thread, I did cut the drink out which she got used to after a few nights.

She wakes between 5-6am and I give her a b/f. She will usually then settle for another hour or so.

How are you doing??

We did it for 1 night and 1 day and it was hell (see the 'I need help on CC NOW' thread)

I just couldn't hack it any longer than that even though I was told what was happening was completely normal and the advice was brilliant.

I think I'll just leave it till he's a bit older and has all his teeth so I can be sure it's not them coming through as he doesn't wake all night all the time IYSWIM?

I've now got a growbag too

I also stopped breastfeeding a week ago, not even at bedtimes. He missed the intimacy but not the milk I think and gets lots of cuddles but he's still as independent as ever. He's taken to sucking my lips which has given me a lovely plump 'Paris lip'. He's 1 tomorrow. Glad you're sorted