Sleep training/stopping co-sleeping - still confused!

[PreciousCargo]

Currently co-sleeping with DS, 5 months old. I guess it kind of happened when he refused to settle in moses basket or crib, and has become a habit that has worked for us. He falls asleep breastfeeding on me between 8-9pm, I carry him to bed with me and he sleeps in the crook of my arm from 9.30pm till 7am-ish. He wakes 2-3 times for feeds, and sometimes he goes onto the boob just to settle himself off. He never falls asleep without boob, unless we are in the car or occassionally being rocked.

Although this has worked well, I feel the time has come for all of us to move him out of the bed. My main reason for doing this is the feed-to-sleep association, particularly with mums all night milk bar being on tap! We also want to reclaim the bed, room is becoming an issue and think the time is right now for all our sanities! and I have a feeling the longer it goes on the harder it will be. It is pot luck if he naps in the day, but gets really crabby if he not, so another reason we want him to learn to settle himself.

Will he ever learn to settle himself if I put him down in his cot asleep then wakes or do we need to teach him to self-settle as the books tell you?
Any tips for self-settling or bed to cot transition? I have never liked the idea of leaving him to cry, but I know there are gentler versions of this method, still not sure this is for us.

Sorry for the rant, I guess I am fed-up of reading books that say what we SHOULD be doing, and make you feel like a failure, and would like some real advice!

Thanks.

Hi PreciousCaro I will be watching this thread with interest. Am currently co-sleeping with my almost 8 month old who needs to be fed to sleep and is latching on regulary during the night. You'd think I'd know what to do this is my third! The trouble is (and here I have no intention of scaring you) we tried to transit our DS from our bed to his cot when he was 6 months old and I think we made a pig's ear of it.

I hope you (we) get lots of advice here.

OK not very clear, here. When I refer to our 6 month old DS that was six and a half years ago. My current LO is a girl and I really don't want to get the transition from bed to cot wrong. I'm a bit of a softy.

I'll be watching with interest...DS is 18 months and it's very much time to get him into his own bed. We co-sleep simply because he wouldn't settle in the Moses basket - after 72 hours of very little sleep I took the path of least resistance.

He hasn't slept through the night at all. Ever. Which obviously has something to do with freely available milk...

I suspect it's going to be a challenge

Hi Jardins, just wondered what you did to say you made a pigs ear of it? We are already discussing putting him in the cot tonight after his feed, but are unsure whether to take him in to bed when he wakes, feed him back off, rock him, shhh/pat etc. From one softie to another, did you persist or was there any crying?

Hi Ishtar2410, freely available milk is defo the problem, I call ir mums all night milk bar. Did weaning help at all to reduce night feeds? I am kind of hanging on to that hope!

PreciousCargo It did for a time, but now he's back up to (easily) 3 or 4 times between 3 and 6am. Think he likes the comfort as well.

For the past week I've been refusing to BF after 5am which seems to be helping a bit (although he's not too happy about that!). The plan is to move this back so that he's only getting one feed, which I can hopefully replace with water or cow's milk. I hadn't been expecting to BF for this long TBH - managed to remove all day feeds without too much of a problem.

Suspect he moved them to the night time

Once we've tackled the night feeding issue the plan is to move him into a toddler bed next to our bed - cue lots of sleepless nights!

Hi Ishtar! Your idea of refusing to BF after 5am sounds very good. Let us know how it goes, ok?

It's amazing how the most important thing for us parents becomes grabbing a few hours sleep. I think we lose sight of the greater picture and just muddle on from day to day instead. It is true, however, that in a few months/years all this will be a distant memory. Things always sort themselves out eventually but the tiredness can be crippling. (Fortunately my GP has prescribed me iron tablets until I stop breastfeeding which means I am a hell of a lot less tired than with my other two babies. Clever doctor!)

PreciousCargo I'd love to give you a clear answer about what we did exactly with DS but it really is a blur now! I recall having moved house and that, like our current LO, he had pretty much slept through until 4-5 months old (though not consistently) and then the 4 month sleep regression kicked in with, maybe, the house move. We tried to put him down in his cot beside our bed and when he would wake up at night we did some sort of controlled crying when we would reassure him every few minutes that we were there with him. The trouble is that he always managed to cry longer than we could cope with. The long and the short of it is that he ended up co-sleeping with us for a LONG time after that although naps were always in his cot. Of course he now sleeps like a baby (ha, ha, bloody ha) now he's six. Incidentally I bf him exclusively until 5-6 months and then introduced a bottle so that he wouldn't be too dependent on me during the night. See, what we know now is that DS is a very stubborn sensitive soul and maybe he took to the transition worse than many babies.

I cannot comment on how I managed with my DD1 who is now 14! I know I was the same softy as I am now but she did accept being moved into a cot at the same age a hell of a lot better...

The milk bar is open all night long here too I cannot believe she slept so well during the first four months. I think I am to blame in the sense that I got into the habit of bf back to sleep during a nap when she'd wake up grumpy and tired. Sadly weaning hasn't helped her sleep through at all. It is interesting, however, that she has always feed more during the evening and now she eats mostly in the evenings too.

An interesting thought to throw your way: more cultures worldwide co-sleep than those who don't. I am not implying that you should continue to co-sleep though!

Our main problem is that we've never had enough bedrooms. It's interesting that our DS started to sleep through when he finally got his own room. And now if/when we do succeed in moving our LO into her cot she will be sharing our bedroom.

So what shall we do? How has your evening been PreciousCargo?

I can't really give you any advice about what to do now, but I can reassure you that your situation won't last forever. We co-slept and fed 18 mo DS to sleep until last week, and he is now in a big bed and sleeping through till about 6am, when he comes in with us, has a quick feed (3 mins) and a lovely snuggle, and sleeps some more. About two months ago I night-weaned him using the jay gordon method (just google it), which worked very quickly and easily, in about 3 nights - but not the first time I tried, which was at about 12 months!

Then a couple of weeks ago we made a big fuss of building his 'big boy bed' and doing up his room, and he helped - then we did a couple of nights of stories in his bed, and then finally moved him in there. There has been crying, but my DH lay on the floor next to the bed (bless him!) and just kept putting him back to bed and reassuring him, and each night it's been less - tonight he cried for about 10 mins - and I feel okay listening to him because I know DH is in there with him, but also because I know he is old enough to understand it's bedtime, and he's crying from frustration at wanting to keep playing, rather than genuine distress at being abandoned.

I'm sure none of this is helpful, but I just wanted to reassure you that things will change, and you are doing the right thing in remaining responsive to your child - you will know inside yourself when it's time to bear a little bit of crying, but maybe that's not quite yet.

Thank you for your posts. I know it probably appears as if things seem to be working well, so why change it? Co-sleeping has been a life saver, we have all had the sleep we needed in the early months and most importantly DS has has had the closeness and cuddles he clearly craved. I will miss those cuddles too! Although I am still deliberating whether to just bite the bullet and move him to the cot soon, I am wondering how it will work when I have to go back to work after Christmas. How do working mums who co-sleep find it?

Thank you missjackson for the night weaning advice, I will be sure to check that out.

Jardins - I hear you about bf to sleep, I feel I am to blame for DS not being able to soothe himself as I never put him down in the early weeks when he was hanging onto the boob for comfort - mainly because I couldn't bare to hear him cry. I don't think there is any need to be blaming ourselves, we've given the LO's everything they need.

Ishtar2410 another reason I feel the time is right to move him on is I am looking to possibly stop bf from 6 months. I feel the time has come for us all, although I suspect it won't be that easy!

I feel it may be a bad idea to try and co-sleep and keep him off the boob!

Hence i am going to have a look at the jay gordon method for night weaning..

Oh yes, meant to say that when I went back to work on a short-term contract when DS was 10 months, co-sleeping was a life saver and made me feel really close to him, like I still got to spend lots of time with him even when I was doing really long days at work.

JG method really isn't recommended for under ones though; he says your child needs to understand that it's no more milk at night and that really little ones don't have that comprehension - they will just be confused. It didn't work for us even when DS was 12 months, but at 18 months he understood perfectly and it was pretty painless.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Try the No Cry Sleep Solution. I won't lie, it's no quick fix but it does work eventually.I read it when DS was about 13mo and we took it really slowly- DS stopped feeding to sleep and started sleeping through at about 20 mo but he was a particularly bad sleeper/ clingy baby so don't let that put you off! Plus we started really late so that makes a difference, I think you'd find it much easier and quicker with a baby.

It's worth a read anyway just because it'll give you a few different ideas to try that don't involve any major sleep training.

Thanks everyone for your responses. I have looked at No Cry Sleep Solution but found it quite geared up for co-sleeping rather than bed to cot transition. There were some useful points, will look again for a refresher!

After an exhusting night last night, wih mums milk bar very busy all night, and a distinct lack of room in bed, I am feeling surprisingly upbeat. I have decided to try and think a little more positively - for now! Co-sleeping has been a God send and my main concern I think is going back to work missjackson I'm glad that worked for you, that is reassuring to hear. Fortunately I have 3 months left til I go back, and anything could happen in that time...and I'm not ready to hear him cry!

Hi there

to be honest i could have written your post- DD is 23 weeks and up til 3 days ago was fed to sleep, would manage 1 hour/2 max in the cot, and would end up co-sleeping feeding on and off all night. She still does feed to sleep for all naps. Dh had, had enough and to be honest we wanted the bed back at night, plus the constant waking were tiring for her as she didn't seem to get any long stretches of sleep at all.

I read No cry sleep solutions but found the solutions tough to implement. My DD didn't get the pull off thing- fussed every single time and it would end up waking her up, and making her mad and for me/us it was too gentle I think. I decided to do something a bit tougher I guess, and re-read the baby whisperer solves all your problems (haha love the title!!) I found the book a bit patronising but we decided to use pick up/put down for her bedtime, and that it was simpler for DH to totally handle bath and bedtime, and for me to leave the house (so I didn't crack and take over as I cannot stand crying even tired crying).

we are only on day 3, but so far she has spent 2 whole nights in the cot which she has never done before. Friday and saturday she took 40 mins to settle in cot with DH rubbing her back and talking to her, tonight it took 25 mins. Sat night she slept an unbelievable 9 hours- from 7pm til 4am. This has never happened before in all her 5 months. I know we are not out of the woods, and that teething or any other issues are bound to crop up, but thi s seems to be working for us, plus DH feels very proud of himself. There has been a small amount of tired tears, but we are all sleeping better for it. Good luck with whatever you try.... x

Scarlett173 thank you, your story is very encouraging and I will be sure to have a look at the baby whisperer, I've heard that mentioned a few times of late. You sound like you are making good progress, well done!

As it stands DS has not spent even an hour asleep in his cot (except on a cushion it in once, for about an hour). We really just need to bite the bullet and just do it. I've come to the conclsion that even if he spends an hour or two, then when he wakes we'll tske it from there...anything has to be an improvement on where we are now. But saying all this, sfter a better night last night and catching up on a bit of sleep today, I feel positive about where we are. I really just don't fancy the idea of still being here in 3 and a bit months when I have to go back to work. So just going to roll with it for now...Good Luck too!

Precious cargo-

try Baby whisperer- to be honest the book grates on me and I am not using all her routiney suggestions, but the pick up put down thing has been a tool DH can use, and last night again took 15-20 mins to get her to sleep and then she slept from 7pm-2am, quick feed then back down, woke at 6, resettled then we are up at 7am.

Last Monday night I can remember sneaking her into cot (asleep) and her waking 8/9/10.30/midnight until we co-slept. I never used to believe this thing about her being confused about falling to sleep downstairs then waking upstairs and freaking out.... but this seems to prove its true...plus after night feeds before I literally would have to sit for up to an hour waiting for her to fall into a deep sleep to have any chance of transferring to cot which meant I was knackered... now I wait for breathing to slow down, and put her straight down and she doesn't even whimper, just shuffles around and gets comfy.

I am so glad we bit the bullet and tried to change what we were doing rather than just accepted it.

Good luck hun!

Have been reading this thread with interest, as we have been co-sleeping with DS (who is 9 weeks) from birth and his sleep pattern has not changed, he wakes every 2 hours and needs to feed to sleep. Recently he has seemed more awake than usual in the night. I'm really keen to move him out of the bed and into his cot, but he does take ages to settle there so the nights would be rough. Scarlett175 - how did you do PU/PD. I've tried the shh/pat thing but it doesn't seem to settle him.

I change my thinking quicker than the seasons.
We call after 7pm the witching hour in out house, because that is the point DS has shown us he is tired, after 7pm the hysterics can often start, which we put down to over tiredness. So when we took the decision to co-sleep, every night I get ready for bed by 7pm so I can feed him quietly downstairs or on the bed then carry him to bed with me at 9pm, normally another feed 9.30/10pm then sleeps with me. Sometimes when we start the feed to sleep, he own't always take the boob then goes kind of hyper, normally ending in tears. After carrying him around for a while and rocking he will eventually take the boob.

I have decided I would rather hear a few tears when he wakes up in his cot and i go to him and comfort him (and probably then take him into our bed or try and comfort him back in cot, not decided yet!), rather than listen to him over tired and in need of getting to sleep.

Scarlett175 will order the book shortly. Out of interest does PU/PD strt with naby awake in cot or putting down when asleep?
Like you, yime to bite the bullet and try atleast!

Sorry for all type errors!

hiya,

you put down awake so they know where they are IYSWIM?? we make sure she is tired, has had bath etc, then put in cot, she fussed tonight (tired crying) for about 10 mins then went to sleep, DH waits in room for another 15 mins to make sure she is in deep sleep then leaves. We started Friday night and haven't had more than 1-2 night wakings plus she is a lot more easier to put down after feeds etc, I remember reading in NCSS that the first time you put baby to sleep will determine how they expect to be put to sleep for rest of night?? So if you feed to sleep at 7, then transfer to cot he will wake, freak that you are not there and expect BF right away (if he is anything like DD). When DD wakes since Friday she isn't even crying as such- more of a gradual snuffling then shouting for her food, much less upset than when she would wake up before.

x

So with putting down awake - if they then get more and more awake and eventually cry - is this when you pick them up? Then do you put them back down once calm again?

yes exactly- the idea is to hold until calm but not let them go to sleep on you. If this annoys then or frustrates further you could just stroke/pat while they are laying (DH sometimes does this) its just to maintain physical contact while THEY fall asleep rather than you putting them to sleep.