Help with high needs baby who NEVER sleeps : (

[glitzalicious]

I have a 5-month old son who has been a diabolical sleeper since day one. He hates all the things my mum friends swore would send any baby to sleep: he would scream in his bouncer, swing and car seat, and even hates his lovely pushchair. He won't settle to sleep on me: every time I hold him he wants to nurse (I'm still EBF) and gets very upset when I try and put him down. DH has more success, but if he falls asleep on his shoulder he will wake up screaming as soon as DH tries to transition him into his crib. Naps are a total disaster: he will scream, even when being held, for up to an hour before conking from sheer exhaustion: even then he rarely sleeps longer than 30 minutes max, and always wakes up crying. At night, he's very happy after his bath/massage/story/BF routine but goes into meltdown when he realises we want to get him to sleep. Bouncing on a birthing ball no longer has any effect, and our GP has banned us from swaddling now as he can roll like a pro. We had a 'sleep expert' mind him on our one and only night out, and she couldn't settle him before midnight! She was shocked at how stubbornly he fight sleep. We've read every sleep book on the market and tried everything short of full-blown CIO: PU/PD just made him mad (he is most definitely a high-needs baby, and my doc says they don't respond to CIO methods well. I'm also too much of a wuss to do it, TBH). We've tried reflux meds in case that was an issue, but they had no effect. He's generally a pretty happy little man, except when he gets overtired, but as he never naps and wakes every hour or so at night, I am getting zero respite and feel on the verge of collapse. DH feels his work is suffering from lack of sleep, and we're struggling as none of our friends have babies of this disposition, and offer useless advice such as: "Just put him in the crib when he rubs his eyes". If only it were that simple! Any help graciously accepted...

You poor thing!
No advice really but have you tried a sling? A dummy?

I really really hope weaning can make the difference

Any luck with white noise. My dd doesn't nap at all without if and only sleeps at night if we co sleep. She even wakes when I get up to the toilet. But white noise calms her almost instantly. I have an iPhone app but there CDs or downloads too. Hth

You will probably have heard every suggestion people here are going to give you! Poor you though - it is awful!

My ds was like this for the first 3 months only - I remember the releif the night I left him with dh cos I was at the end of my tether and somehow, that night, we got 4 hours sleep at once - he still wakes in the night a couple of times a week and he's 8 years old now!

My top tip - the washing machine! When I wanted him to nap (for pretty much all of his first 18 months) I would put himin front of the washing machine in first his bouncy chair, later on some cushions. He was fascinated by it and after only a few minutes it was like he was hypnotised and he would fall asleep. He still gets mesmerised in the kitchen if it is on, funnily enough!!

I hope someone can offer you better advice than this. Sleep deprivation is a sort of torture. Good luck with dealing with him. But I bet, despite all this, that he is gorgeous, isn't he?

Please also keep an eye on yourself. Sleep problems in babies can lead to Mums suffering from PND (something I also have extensive experience of!!) and you need to make sure that you get enough rest to make sure that you are healthy and well. I'm not sure how you do that, but you really do need to treat yourself well. You are one of that most special group of people - a new Mum!! - and you deserve to be loved and pampered for all that you do!

i used to spend hours walking/driving etc with ds1. sometimes it worked. he also liked to listen to radio 2. we would leave it on at night time and it helped him ( again sometimes but we were happy that it sometimes worked!)
if one of your friends ask if you need anything say yes and tell them to play with dc for an hour. you know they are safe and take a coffee upstairs sit down or have a bath or anything for you.
they say children that don't sleep are very bright! ds1 better bloody be!!( he is now 6 and a bomb wouldn't wake him but he only ever needs 8-10 hours).

Thanks for all the advice... the funny thing is he has an intense need to suck (would happily nurse 24/7 if allowed) but has refused every dummy on the market: we've even tried dipping them in gripe water to get him to accept it but as soon as the flavour's run out he spits it out and gets very cross! He only wants the real deal: he's no fool this kid. My DH tried to settle him for the night for over an hour yesterday: I wish I knew why he fights sleep so much (he;d had his 'soothing; routine and was clearly tired, and was rubbing eyes, yawning etc). We do use white noise, and occasionally that helps but only once he's already asleep. I would love to have some evenings out with my DH, but I'm so scared leaving DS with anyone, even friends, as I fear they won't have the patience to deal with him and might lose their temper with him. I'm really, really hoping this improves as DH and I are like zombies at the moment, and poor DS is suffering from sleep deprivation too : (

i stopped feeding ds1. i lasted until he was 10mos, but couldn't go any longer without sleep or being able to leave him.

i'm not suggesting you do it, but it was the only thing that meant he learnt to self-soothe/ rest/ sleep. until he got the message that the milk supply had been turned off, he wanted physical attachment or a boob in his mouth. and he would scream blue murder if either was denied.

DD3 (DC4) was like this. The only thing that worked was going with the flow -- no strict bedtime, picked her up when she cried, lots of holding and carrying, extended bfing. She spat out her dummy with fury when I tried it.
I co-slept; she went to bed when I did and woke when I did in the morning, as well as a few times in the night for feeding. Sleeping apart from me just wasn't something she could manage. I had done co-sleeping before for DC2 and liked how I could just feed her in a daze. I never changed any nappies at night if they just had pee in them, to minimise waking for me.

She's fine now, aged 12, and we can look back and joke a little about her first 2.5 years. She didn't sleep through until then.

Things she liked -- a bath; she would happily sit and splash for hours if I could have devoted the time to watching her there. Lying back in her little carseat under the big tree in the garden looking up at the leaves and the spots of sunlight, chatting away, but not sleeping; sitting up in a back carrier I had while I tried to go about my daily life, hoovering, cooking, making beds, etc., while she gripped my hair and sometimes scratched my neck and tried to pull out my earrings.

Try not to slap the people who advise you to put him in the cot when he rubs his eyes. They mean well. But until you've lived through it you don't know what you're talking about.

Have you read Dr Sears The High Needs Baby? It saved my sanity.

we used the pekemoe for swaddle weaning, but your baby could suck on the corners too, our little one loved doing that! haev a google at it.. we are in NZ and got it direct but you might be able to get a 2nd hand one off ebay?

Oh god, you poor poor things. It's torture. We had a baby like this...would fight sleep like it was the enemy. Our DD has proved to be extremely single-minded and rather stubborn as she's grown up, so don't worry - it's probably nothing you've done or are doing, it's just his nature!

If I have one suggestion, it would be this: work at the sucking-to-sleep association. Have you read elizabeth pantley's book, the No Cry Sleep Solution? There is a good section on this in her book.

If you can't be fagged with aother book and I really wouldn't blame you (like you have the time or energy!) then basically, what she says is, you need to pull the baby off the breast with your little finger just as they are dropping off. They scream, you count to ten, relatch, wait for sleep to almost overcome the baby, pop them off, they scream, you do the same.... eventually, the baby may fall to sleep without the boob in mouth.

CIO didn't work with our daughter but I did have some success with putting her in her cot and just sitting by her/ talking to her/ patting her while she worked herself into a frenzy and eventually (after 2 hours) conked out. I never left her to cry alone. The next time it took less time, the next less time still, and then eventually she would conk out on her own. This improved her sleep generally no end, because she had learned to self-settle. I felt quite mean but I also had PND and god, did we need things to change before we all went mad from sleep deprivation.

Poor you! Ds1 was like this (thankfully only until 12 weeks, although it felt like a lifetime). It was torture.

Have you tried a dummy? Might help him to settle.

Sorry, just spotted that you'd tried a dummy.

It seems to be getting worse, not better, and he's now got bags under his eyes from lack of sleep. He dropped a percentage point on the growth chart this Ik I'm so worried that this lack of sleep is affecting his health... He's got bags under his eyes and dropped a percentile on the growth chart this month and the doc said it's prob down to him not sleeping enough. I feel like we're somehow failing him, and I've read almost every book on the market (during his very frequent, very long feeds): Dr Sears was great in that DS ticked every box on his checklist, so I blamed myself a bit less for his stubbornness, but overall I felt his advice was pretty much to go with the flow and give them what they want, but nursing on demand, letting him cosleep and suckle all night etc etc isn't doing him (or us)any favours. I also read Pantley's book and had very high hopes, but I think her methods aren't really effective with a truly 'spirited' baby. I would honestly pay my (meagre) life savings to someone who could help sort this out... I keep reading that high needs kids don't sleep well throughout childhood etc etc and I fear if this continues DH won't want to give DS a sibling. I just want us to be able to enjoy his babyhood instead of talking about his sleep problems all the time. I cherish that little man and want him to be happier : (

Sorry about rambling intro to last post, too tired to work this iPhone properly!

Oh and Skintbint, I have thought about weaning him so he doesn't see me as the 24-hr buffet any more, but I've been so determined to bf for 1 yr that I think I'll feel like even more of a failure if I give up now (totally irrational I know, but it's the one thing I can do for him that he finds calming). I know I'm very lucky to have him, but it's so hard being a mum sometimes!

another thing that helped was the sleepsense book.. that might help?

Have you looked into cranial osteopathy? I have heard of people for whom it has worked wonders.

Fwiw ds was a terrible sleeper and we were shattered and wondering if you could die from sleep deprivation etc and worrying about bad habits and the future etc etc etc and you know what? One day, he just 'got' it.

With my DD who was like this, she turned out in the end to have seasonal allergies that were very severe. All my DCs have food allergies of one kind or another too, and none were great sleepers. DD3 is dairy allergic and gets the odd bout of asthma.

I don't know what you could do with a small baby as far as allergy testing goes, but maybe this could be part of the reason? A neighbour had one DD who was allergic to scented laundry detergent and was doing very badly wrt sleep and feeding and general mood until they switched to non-scented detergent when the baby was about 18 months.

I heard of cranial osteopathy far too late for DD3 or I would have tried it.

Hi there,
Have you tried giving him your little finger to suck? My 4 months old DD rejects all dummies but falls asleep sucking my little finger (similar size & texture to nipple maybe?). When she's making a fuss, I let her try it out but with my little finger in her mouth, and after some time (typically a few mins but sometimes about 30 mins), she submits and falls asleep sucking my finger.
Good luck.
E

Hey, like unmentioned suggested, I'd maybe try cranial osteopathy. The fact that your DC likes to suck so much might be his way of "self-medicating" ie. getting pain relief from all the endorphins he releases when sucking... I have friends who have visited cranial osteopaths before and after a couple of sessions, have noticed real improvements.

Good luck

Hi Glitzalicious,
I really feel for you ,I was lucky as I had an amazing lady - Jo Tantum - she also helped another couple of my friends out and she sorted them all out .Why don't you send her an email www.babysecretsltd.com .
I really hope that you will get this sorted .I also recommend the Lullaby soother -which my baby loves it's by First years.
:)

For us it was:

Comfort milk with Dr Brown's bottle (I know you're BF, but perhaps it would be the less of the two 'evils' to try and get him off you?)

Swaddling/sling.

Chripractor.

White noise.

It's awful, you have my sympathies. My DS changed very suddenly into a really reaxed happy chap at 5months. no idea why. Maybe digestive system matured? So hard on every one in the family though.

Glitzalicious, hugs hugs hugs. Went through this with DD. Read every flipping book I could get my hands on and have heard millions of ideas from well-meaning friends.

FWIW here's what we did/ how we coped and what happened.

At about 6 months, DD had huge bags and blisters around her eyes from lack of sleep.
Got No Cry Sleep Solution book and did sleep diary. DD was getting 9 hours sleep a day (instead of 13 hours required at 6 mos). I was getting less than 5 total and rarely more than 45 mins in one go.

We had the top floor carpeted, made extreme blackout blinds for DD's room, all the upstairs, and the front door of the house so daylight didn't shine into her room if I opened her door, established militarily strict routine for meals, naps and bedtime. Then I dealt with DD's sleep deficit: for two weeks I literally held her 24/7 so she got 12 hours sleep every day. Then when she was less exhausted we did Controlled Crying. She sobbed for 2 hours (okay, we all three sobbed for 2 hours) then she slept for two hours, then woke up asking for more milk. The next night she only cried for 20 mins but still woke again after 2 hours. After 5 days we had established a night sleep pattern of 4-2-2-2 which to be honest was still pretty tough but I could just about function. Ha ha ha to all those smug gits who swore if I just did it properly she'd sleep 12 hours.

After about another year or so, I decided to night wean her and wish to goodness I had done so at 6 months. It was two weeks of torment listening to that little thing's tum grumble all night - in our case, she seemed to be getting all her nourishment at night.

We still had very disturbed nights until we moved house (bit extreme, huh?) In the new house she doesn't share a room with the water tank. She sleeps better here but still often wakes once or twice.

I honestly seriously have considered starting another new support group for mums with extreme poor sleepers but I'm honestly seriously too exhausted and trying to pick up the pieces of my life. Do get some sleep yourself if you possibly can, otherwise the effects take months (maybe years) to recover from.

Oops, I wrote an essay. HUGS and hope this helps.

Thanks so much to all: it really helps to know others have gone through this. I guess it really hit home when my mum said she wouldn't mind DS (who she rarely sees, due to geographical issues) in the evening as she'd find it impossible to get him to sleep. She's very experienced with kids and it shocked me a little... and friends always give me pitying looks when their puddings are sleeping in their buggies and my cherub is wailing his head off! RidgewayLass, it's really interesting that CIO didn't make your DC sleep through the night... the only other person I know with a 'high need' baby had exactly the same outcome as you (long-ish sleep followed by wakings every two hours). Feeling a bit stronger today as DH handled some of the night wakings last night... will definitely look into cranial osteopathy and some of your other tips. Fingers crossed! x