need help from non cry it out crowd please

[yawningmonster]

this may be long sorry. dd has always been a rotten sleeper. she is 15mths. despite desperately trying to be consistent her sleep is still very irratic and I can't tell what she will do day to day. I will outline what I can
1.Most days she will have a nap which is usually after lunch but at times can be as early as 10 and some days she will resist it all together.
2.When she resists a nap she will fall asleep around 5/6, treat it like a nap and be awake 45-90 minutes later and will not resettle for hours

1. Most naps are 45-60 minutes

4.She is breastfed and still wakes at least 1 time in the night and up to 4/5 times, she wants feeding each wake up and currently resettles fairly easily

1. she is currently having some good stretches of 5-7 hours at night

6.bedtime routine is bath, pj's, teeth, stories, bf, bed. She almost never falls asleep on breast but is showing tired signs at this time. Once in cot she will lie quite happily for up to 15mins then cry. this is where it all turns to custard and we have tried everything bar cry it out...patting, rocking, shushing, white noise, cuddling, offering breast, lying beside her you name it but it can take hours to get her to sleep and usually she will finally crash out on the breast. I can't do it anymore, I just can't, I am exhausted, nobody is getting enough sleep. I have a busy, active toddler and a ds with aspergers, I am on my own alot with them due to dh's work and I am starting to get every bug going as I am just exhausted. Ds has just had swine flu to boot so I have had about 3 hours sleep nightly for the last week. Ideas please!!!!

bump

will she sleep in the buggy/car? maybe build in a journey around 11am -ish and see if she'll crash...

what do YOU think she needs to learn? Maybe if you can work out what she is wrong/the next step, you can help her learn it.

BUT if i remember correctly, my ds had a PITA bedtime similar to this at 14mths or so where he - as yours, wouldn't settle on breast or anything. I did choose to stop bfing at this time (not suggesting you do at all) and I lay next to him and sang songs/read stories til he fell asleep. He has never been in a cot and went into a single bed when we moved (16mths or so). but gosh, i remember being beside myself with the frustration.

Anyway, he did get a lot better does not mention the recent similar bedtime shenanigans at 2 but it was a right pain so I do sympathise. Tbh it sounds like YOU are worn out so that's probably affecting how you interpret the situation too. Do what you can, no-one is perfect and try to look after yourself. It';s hard and you haven't done anything wrong. Babies change - she will change (and again too). Good luck

PS you have tried Calpol/anbesol for teeth haven't you?

Is it possible she is still hungry, you know, for something solid?

Mine would sometimes find it impossible to sleep comfortably unless I had resorted to a biscuit or rusk or similar just before bed.

Sorry you are going through this.

Oh gosh yes could well be teeth. She might be getting her back ones. They are a right bugger.

thanks adair, yes thought of teeth but she does have all bar the 2 year old molars and there is no real evidence that those are surfacing (well not her usual teething behaviour any road. Your response is so reassuring thank you. I actually find the laying down with her the worst as I have ds to sort out and she thinks it is all a game and clambers all over me for ages, tries to get in and out of bed, plays with anything she can get her hands on and generally acts the monkey. It is weird but on a day when she doesn't nap it doesn't matter what we do, car, stroller, nothing will put her to sleep. I almost wonder if she is phasing out her nap but surely not at 15months?? ANd not when she only gets about 9hours sleep total on a good night????

flightattendant thank you, that is something we haven't tried!!! she has been very, very slow to accept solids at all and we have only just got her onto 2 meals a day (with regular often refused healthy snack opportunities thrown in) She still only eats about a tablespoon of food at these "meals" but her "dinner" is about 4.30 so could definately look at offering her something just before teeth time.

any other ideas I can try please? Am prepared to consider pretty much anything bar leaving her to cry.

the 3 hours sleep was the aspergers ds with swine flu combined with dd! so that is not the norm just had a crap week and struggling to cope with dd not settling, yes definately try to co ordinate her long sleep with mine but really need help with her not settling sometimes until 11 or 12 or night.

How does your dd sleep now? You may be right she may just not need much sleep, unfortunately I am not so blessed and really need sleep to cope with her and ds.

thank you starlight that sounds like bliss and I do hope we can get there, not sure if I am really up to 8 more months of this though? It will be better now I don't have to keep temperature watch and dehydration watch on ds but still exhausting. How old is your ds? I have found my ds is starting to respond well to social stories.

I didn't think that at all from your post, ds was dx at just over 4, at the time he was any a typical presentation? but he has started to have more typically aspergers behaviours now at almost 6.

sounds very hard, sorry you are struggling and tired :(

Sorry if you've done these already or if someone else just said the same...

can you wake her if she naps late? If she resists after lunch nap, try again at 3.30, let her sleep until 4.15, then get her up again?

agree - try for more solids and less breast feeding over night, or consider stopping the over night feeds altogether? (I was still feeding DD - 13 months - once overnight, and didn't mind it, but she started to wake more and more often overnight so I wondered if I was giving her mixed messages by feeding her at all - afterall, she doesn't know that 11pm is ok for a feed but 3am is not...and so we stopped the feeds, giving cuddles instead for the few nights...)

My DC have all been slow to accepty solids - have only liked finger food and although I know many people swear by baby led weaning, I just find it hard to get enough food into them, as most of it ends on the floor! When DD is tired or fussy I give her one of those sachets of baby food (I'm not in UK, but I think you have them there too - pureed fruit etc in a squeezy sachet? Also sometimes yoghurt ones?) and she will suck it straight from the sachet, although she wont eat from a spoon.

I hope you find something that helps.

thank you astrophe, definately going to try the solids suggestion. I have tried waking her from a late nap but to be honest any nap at all seems to impact her settling at night. I actually don't mind the night feeds as she is (after much hell)now feeding and resettling easily. It is more the settling down for the night that I am struggling with.
DS had difficulties with solids as well and I am not really at all worried about that aspect, I give a mixture of finger food and mashes and sometimes she eats, mostly she doesn't...she is fiercely independent and insists on feeding herself and when interested in the food can do so well so when it gets tossed/spilt everywhere I figure she just doesn't want it. I am not wanting to wean from breast at the moment and am happy for her to continue to demand feed.

could you try just keeping her up until, say, 9.30pm, and then co sleeping? Maybe a total reshuffle of routine?

thanks astrophe, co sleeping hasnt worked at all well in the past but i am more than willing to give it a go. I will try a week of offering her more to eat closer to bedtime and then try the co sleeping if things are no better

Can you try putting her into a routine - just a loose one for day naps? After a week or so, hopefully she'll get the message. Perhaps have a mini nap routine with a special toy or something. Even if she isn't tired, put her in her room for a nap an hour after a (big) lunch and try feeding her. Perhaps leave her with some books or toys if she doesn't want to sleep but have a bit of quiet time.

What time does she go to bed and wake up? Can you make these the same times every day as well - maybe an earlier bedtime with tea a couple of hours beforehand to give time to digest if she needs it but not later. Try slow release carbs with a bit of protein? E.g. rice and meat/banana porridge etc.

Yawningmonster - my DS is 16 months and i could have written your post! sorry, I don't Have much advice, just wanted to say that you are not alone! How I deal with it is I cosleep and go with the flow basically. So if after dinner, bath, feed he doesn't sleep, I let himget up and play. This might not be the best thing but tryin for hours to put him to sleep makes me feel worse ! I dont give him much attention though at that time, just let him run around and play and offer him whatever I am having in case he is still hungry and wait for him to crash! Eventually he gets so tired he clings to means cries an then I feed him to sleep. I know this is not ideal and very difficult when u have another DC but I am hoping it will pass ! :)

jellybellies thank you so much I don't know anyone in rl with a baby like her!!! Iggybuff believe me we have tried to have a very predictable routine from day one but she just sleeps on her own schedule or not as the case may be

any other ideas am going to try with offering food closer to bedtime and then perhaps co sleeping again if that hasn't worked after a week or so...

yawningmonster,

You have my every sympathy, DD2 (DC3) is 14 moonths and has been an absolute PITA with sleep and still is. I have no magic wand but I will say that she has massively improved since she started eating better. Her routine used to be to sleep in my bed and wake every couple of hours for a bf. So,on my sisters advice I have really stepped up her food.

She will not let me feed her with a spoon, just clamps her jaw shut if I try. However, she is quite happy to feed herself most stuff with a combination of spoon and fist. It's not pretty but she is eating more. Your DD might respond to this. I found with DD1 that she was more interested in independence than DS was also. Keep offering the snacks and praise a lot if she eats anything. My DD has also started to eat more on picnics/ snacks in the park which has transferred back home.

I have stopped putting DD2 into bed in the evening because she would quite happily play for hours while I sat next to the cot waiting for her to settle down. I put DD1 to bed first then DD2 has the beginnings of bedtime routine which is shower, pyjamas, small amount of milk in cup and then bf. She comes downstairs with me and falls asleep on the breast,I then transfer her to the pushchair and take her up to bed with me. I know this is far from ideal but it means that she sleeps and I can spend time with DS and DSS's in the evening.

It's different with younger children because there are always other pulls on your attention. You just have to do your best to stay sane, she'll sleep better in the end (and replace sleep with another problem )

"D2 into bed in the evening because she would quite happily play for hours while I sat next to the cot waiting for her to settle down"...this is exactly why co sleeping hasn't worked for us, it is far too exciting and she just plays for hours and I do mean hours!!! Things have definately improved for us since she has been eating a bit too and that is I think why we now are getting some stretches of 5-7 hours, it is just really the settling at night that is doing my head in...the rest I can handle. She is definately very independent with her eating and very accurate at feeding herself when interested but if she is not interested then it goes everywhere. I am not a domestic goddess so am happy with the mess and very glad our family includes a dog. I agree with being out and about being better, she sort of almost forgets about the breast when we are out and will snack much better especially if ds or other children are there to model from. you may be right and it is just a case of ride it out...