Misguided Illusion Part III - Baby still not sleeping through by six months? Come and join us!

[Galena]

Link to previous thread [http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/851829-Misguided-Illusion-Part-II-Baby-still-not-sleeping-through-by here]

Well, we've now filled 2 threads! Time for a new one methinks...

Hopefully we'll all graduate soon.

I hope those slightly better nights continue Galena. There is definately something up with dd, she is quite grizzly during the day and wanting even more feeds than usual. I don't really know if she has been early with teeth but they have been fairy constant!! She got her first one a week before 6 months and now at 15months has 16 with only those last molars to go so what does that work out almost 2 a month for the last 9 months? I agree don't worry about other peoples babies...I personally don't breed sleepers but I do breed cute!!!

Hello all

Glad to hear of some good nights Galena. Hello to the newbies and sorry you are also suffering.

We made the mistake of going on holiday which led to DS waking more again. Serves me right for being so positive last time I posted after he'd slept to 5am twice. But hopefully he's settling back into his one wake now that we're home again (fingers crossed).

Forgot to ask: how did you sleep chat go Sappholit?

Bah! I should learn not to post about Skye's sleep when it improves! Last night she woke at 10:30, 11:00 and 11:30 till 1. However, she cut 2 teeth a couple of days ago, so possibly is unsettled due to that.

sappholit, how was your sleep chat?

yawning, I hope DD settles soon for you.

NoSleep, DD seems to settle BETTER when we're away (awkward child!) but hope DS settles soon.

we had a similar night Galena, I know if she wakes up within the hour of going down that ti is going to stay that way. She went down 9 and woke at 9.50, 10.50, 12.40, 2.15, 4, 6 and then went through until i had to wake her for school run. No sign of back molars but I think it must be taht. Sappholit, keen to hear how the sleep chat went, don't know if we have access to anything like that her. In regards to going away, dd doesn't sleep anywhere so going away makes no impact other than a change of sceneray for us.

Galena, thank you for suggesting PUPD, i've only been at it for 2 nights, read the interview with baby whisperer which gave me the courage. DD has done really well so far. Teething can be such an upsetter from routine can't it, I hope Skye sleeps through again soon. :)
For anyone interested the tip I got from the baby whisperer was about babies wriggling and snuggling in, I read that to be DD wanting to cuddle more but I have put her down at this point and after a few cries pick ups and put downs she's gone to sleep within half an hour. Might be useful to someone?

I too suffered from the post-posting sleep, but only 1,3,4 and 5. At least he went back to sleep at 3 with just bottom patting and at 4 before I even got up. Have got a new comfier mattress today, as he sleeps on his front and ours is pretty firm (and I hadn't changed it after dd2 so it wasn't a new one). He slept to 5 on a similar one at my mums but I would bet that it makes no difference here! Worth a try though...

Hi again. Was back at work yesterday . God do I feel the sleep deprivation. Needing muchos coffee. At least no-one is sharing my office at the mo so there is power nap potential. I'm going back slowly so DS can have time to get used to CM. He was there for the morning yesterday. Playing & eating went well and he was apparently very happy (and CM herself lovely) but he totally failed to nap. Just refused. DH picked him up after lunch and he was asleep before they got to the end of the road! He had an hour later but was basically shattered all afternoon, so not convinced that he's ready to drop the morning nap. I think it was just too interesting (lots of older kids to play with) plus he does hate to go to sleep. Was very worried about last night but wasn't too bad (for him). He did manage a nap with Grandma this morning, and then a longer one once I was home this afternoon. Hoping that he gets the hang of sleeping at the CM eventually. Reassurance anyone?
jolly agree with the wriggly thing. I often put DS down when he does this as I think he's trying to get comfy. He often (although not always) goes right to sleep.
Galena at Skye sleeping until 8am. Sleeping until 6am is my fantasy! Sorry to hear she's up again but hopefully just teeth.
nosleep DS also even worse at sleeping if we go away. We make a pretence of taking the travel cot & make sure there is a kingsize bed.
yawningmonster you are appropriately named

Am off this weekend for a hen do for 2 nights. Do feel for DH as he obviously can't BF if it gets tough! Am sure DS will be fine but also worried about how he'll get on, if he'll think I've abandoned him etc. I know he'll get over this once I return but its horrid to imagine him distressed and not to be there . But it is best friend's do and my first ever weekend away since DS so also looking forward to it.

How was your first day carve? both times so far I've found it's taken me a good 6 months to settle back in and both times have been tempted to change jobs (and in fact did - was promoted 1st time but changed jobs 2nd time, got very bored and had to ask for old job back).

Don't think DS will sleep through by end Sept when I go back so am bracing myself for another bought of CC at some point when I try to drop night feeds.

Btw enjoy the hen do - you've definitely earned the time off. Plus, so many times you hear of babies sleeping through when the mum isn't there so it may turn out to be a breeze for your DH.

carve I've been back at work for nearly 2 months now and do feel like I'm too tired to do my job as well as I should. Enjoy your weekend off. It's also a new job (in a new country) so has been more difficult than I thought getting into things.

LO was a bit off schedule last night, she decided to wake slightly less than every 2 hours. Am going to try and get her to feed for a shorter time on one of the feeds, hopefully lead up to her being able to be resettled with just a dummy. Feel like if I weren't at work, then I could sacrifice a weeks night time sleep to work on it.

Someone at work decided to tell me today how it was SOOOOO not normal for her to be waking and feeding so often at nearly 6 months, told me I should do CC (but later told me hers were at least a year when she did this).

We almost do CC at times when she's going down for the night. Most nights we get her to sleep in her cot, but takes about an hour and lots of grizzling (naps are same, maybe a bit shorter 30-60mins). If she's really unhappy I just lay next to her (pop her onto our bed), patting, shushing etc until she goes.

I just don't know what to do really, about any of it. Her daytime naps are also only
normally 30mins, even if she's been fed just before going to sleep.

jolly, glad I could help! It still takes 10-60 minutes to get Skye to sleep with PUPD, but at least she's not being cuddled the whole time.

nosleep, the fact that he's settling without so much interaction is a good thing - here's hoping it continues!

carve, sorry to hear you are having to work with little sleep. Enjoy your weekend! I'm jealous - I can't leave Skye at all at the moment - she just scream and screams for daddy. I know it's just a phase, but I'd like it to end now!

Climber, it's really helpful when people who 'know' tell you it's not normal for them to wake! At 6 months, Skye wouldn't sleep more than about 30 mins. It's gradually increased and now (16 months or 13 months corrected) she generally has 1-2 hours, but only 1 nap.

We've had better sleep - in that she still wakes once or twice, but generally before midnight and then she usually sleeps till 7:30-8ish. She's settled fairly quickly too.

Carve I hope you had a bloody good time. DH will have found his own way if anything like mine it was probably a breeze!
Climber My dd was great at getting to sleep at around 8 months but I was on here lots before then. She's now 18 months nearly and her sleep habits were broken due to chicken pox. I took the whole of August off work to get the sleep thing sorted, if you can afford to, even just a week, I would recommend because then you are devoted to it and things start to change much more quickly.
Galena sounds like Skye has found a pattern, DD was similar from 8 months, we used to put her down around 8, she'd wake for a feed between 12 and 1 and then go through til 7 ish.

Well DD is still doing well, nap times are a bit harder as I tend to be out and about so she usually naps in car/pushchair but it does seem to be around 12 - 1. She was very funny last night.. I have managed to get her nearly settled and can be beside the door but as soon as I head out of the door and try to shush from outside she's up and crying, the funny part being that as I go back in she tucks herself down again, bit of game I think but at least she knows she's meant to be tucked in! Took about 40 mins last nights, a few whinges in the night but I didn't need to go to her until 6am. Phew!

I think the darker evenings are helping too, good sleeps all.

Thanks for the good wishes re: work & my weekend away ladies. I did enjoy my weekend although DS most definitely did not sleep through. He was fine in the day but got very upset in the night. Ended up watching Golden Eye with DH at one point as there was apparently no calming him down (boys night in then? ). DH coped admirably though. DS was much more settled last night and didn't wake until 3am, but then was awake an awful lot until morning (although we are not entirely sure when that begins these days....). DH managed to settle him really quickly each time - apparently DS just looked at him and lay back down! I then fed him at 5.30 (alarm set for 6.15am - ouch!). So not great but a hell of a lot better than a few months ago. DH definitely finding it easier to settle him at the moment, but of course sods law he's on nights next week....
Work is erm...well, I quite like my job & the people are lovely but I can't work out how I feel about it until DS settles properly at CM. She is great and he plays happily there but so far hasn't managed to nap. Just won't drop off, even when they resorted to the pushchair today. I am really hoping that time will sort it out but feeling quite as he is such a rubbish napper. I am easing back into work so we've only had 2 mornings so far. Might go and search the CM board/start a thread to ask for advice.
By the way Climber have you heard of nap extending? Mrs Pantley talks about it in the NCSS (and I guess no cry nap solution as well). A few weeks ago DS would only do 30 mins but after a while getting him back off by whatever means necessary he'll sometimes do an hour now, and has been known to do a little more. Of couse though I have now gone back to work and scuppered everything . Oh and two fingers up at your work colleague. FFS....

Skye's still funny with sleep - although DH's been putting her to bed the last few nights (It was getting ridiculous, with it taking me an hour or more to get her to sleep). He went from 20 mins a couple of nights ago to 5 minutes last night - and then she slept through! However, it does mean that I cannot be involved at all in bedtime routine. If I do bathtime and then leave she becomes hysterical. At least I know she'll settle though. I'm being very sad at the moment though and filling in a spreadsheet of what she eats, what naps she has, what activity she has in the day and when she goes to sleep (and how long it takes). I just feel like I need to monitor it for trends.

In a bit of a quandary. Been invited to do a course which would be fascinating (and possibly allow me to career change in a year or two...) which is 3 days. However, Skye has a complete meltdown if I'm not about, so how she'd cope with 2 1/2 days in childcare (DH has 1/2 day on Fridays) I don't know. Need to discuss it with him I guess.

Any further on your decision Galena? FWIW DS was fine during the day when I was away (but he was with DH). It was just the night that was tricky, but as Skye can sleep through with DH putting her to bed that should be OK. Could DH take A/L or could GPs come down? Loving the spreadsheet but can the maths get complex enough for you?

DS has been absolutely fine at CMs - unless its nap time of course. He has slept in pushchair whilst out on a walk but totally refuses to nap in her house atm. I started a thread & the CMs who helpfully responded did say it often takes time. He was so exhausted on Saturday that he had a 2 hour morning nap! His sleep at night has definitely been worse since I went back & he had a shocker of a night on Saturday but thankfully better last night. Have my fingers crossed now as DH on nights this week. Not at work myself until Weds but god knows how I'm going to stay awake/be remotely useful if he has bad nights. Wish me luck....

Sorry - lost this thread temporarily!

Have decided to postpone course for now. The people who need to know I'm interested know, so in 6-12 months there'll be another course and hopefully Skye'll be better. It's not a staying-away course, so overnight wouldn't be an issue, but during the day she's vile with anyone else. DH couldn't take AL this year - he's only got a little left. Maybe next year though...

One trend the spreadsheet has thrown up is that if she has 2 short naps - one in the morning and one in the afternoon she is awful going to bed - taking 40-60 minutes to get to sleep. If she has one nap, no matter how long (i.e. 20 mins or 1hr and 20 mins) she goes to sleep much quicker (5-15 mins).

Madness if we go out for the day and she sleeps in the car both ways!

Hi - didn't really want to join you but I'm here! DS2 is 9 months and although he's not a bad sleeper compared with a lot of other babies, I really need to get his nighttime sleep sorted. I've been back at work full time since June and have a 3yo DS1 and a DH who works shifts and is often not here at night, so I need a decent stretch of sleep at night just as much as DS2 does.
He has 2 naps during the day and a total of 2½-3 hours, then goes down for the night at about 7. That bit isn't the problem - it's the night waking. He used to wake up pretty regularly at 3-3.30, have a bottle and then go back to sleep until the morning. That was absolutely fine. Now though, things seem to have got worse. He starts stirring any time from 12 onwards, and fusses and frets, grizzles and chats constantly. I can be in an out of his room 10 times in a hour trying to settle him - he's not properly awake though (if I ever switch the light on his eyes are shut or nearly shut)
I think it's time to do something about it but am trying to decide what. I've tried dreamfeeding before I go to bed, but that makes no difference at all and I end up feeding him 4 bottles in the space of 12 hours (just before bed, 10.30ish, whenever he wakes again in the night and then when he gets up in the morning). I really don't think he needs all that when he's eating and drinking plenty during the day.
This is really long - sorry my first post is like this! I'm just trying to decide what method to use to get him out of the habit of the night waking. He is teething at the moment but I'm not going to wait until his teeth are through or I'll be here for another year!
Anyone got any suggestions?

Hi sleepy, sorry you have to join us, but welcome!

If you just leave him when he's whinging, what happens? I do sympathise though - some days Skye sleeps through or has 1 short wake-up, but other nights she's awake for an hour or 2 - not upset, but not asleep either and if I walk out of the room she yells!

Not been on for a while due to being completely knackered. DS has had a cold & associated viral irritations, plus the possibility of teeth bothering him (VAST amounts of drool), and we've had some bloody dreadful nights over the past couple of weeks. Being at work now has made it much much harder to cope with being shattered. One night I even thought he'd done a 6 hour stretch between 9pm & 3am, but DH informed me that he most definitely had not but I'd been so sound asleep I hadn't heard him wake . Anyhow, after all that he then went and slept for 9 solid hours last night . Woke at 4.15pm with a very smelly nappy. Nightmare to get him back to sleep again but 9 hours is a new record. Napping at CM still very dodgy. He won't really have more than one nap and just will not go in the cot, but has slept for an hour in the buggy. He seems to make up at home though. His morning naps were 2 hours long the past couple of days. Off to work tomorrow so we'll see what that does to things. Your data sounds interesting Galena, keep thinking I should do something like that but slightly worried I might get more stressed about naps if I do (which does nothing for my work performance!).
Nice to 'meet' you Sleepy. How are things now? Do empathise with the DH on nights situation. Mine also does shifts so we get to doing things a certain way, then I'm on my own for a few nights and I tend to go into survival mode. Do you think your DS's unsettled nights could be developmental? Mine certainly gets het up when he's learning something. Separation anxiety was also an issue at 9 months if I remember rightly. We do find that trying to put him down awake when he's very unsettled at night isn't actually helpful. He sleeps longer if we hold him until he's in a deep sleep and then put him down. Not what most of the books say but certainly helps us get a few more hours in, especially towards morning. Otherwise he's awake again in 10, 20 mins and its maddening! At other times he does accept being put down awake fine (i.e. if he just wanted a drink) but if he's upset about something then its a different story!

Well, a quick update:

Skye is improving... I think! We've had a few nights without waking recently. We've also had a couple of 2 hour-long wakes and more, mind you! I think there are teeth on the way so this could all go pear shaped again, of course.

Glad to hear minicarve managed a 9-hour stretch! I'm very lucky in that Skye doesn't do dirty nappies between bath time and breakfast time!

She's still really clingy though which is getting very wearing (and DH is getting cross cos she won't let him cuddle her at all). Hopefully once she can walk everything will settle, but then again... Maybe not!