Help mumsnetters - are some babies just 'bad' sleepers? What can I do??

[CrazyOVERbaby]

Hello, need some answers and a cup of virtual tea and biccies here! Has a horrendous night with DD2, 11 weeks. She was up, pretty much all night from 2am. DD1 was a wonderful sleeper from the get go, and we did everything 'right' with her, from the bedtime routine, to the dark room, to the not feeding to sleep, everything! And it really paid off.

From day one, I have had my suspicions that things would be harder with DD2. She is more alert, more fidgety, more active and is a poorer (although not that bad I don't think)feeder. Still, we have followed exactly the same strategy with her, and she hasn't been doing too badly.

She's in a good bedtime routine, goes down at 6.30, up again at 10.30, feed and down to sleep. The problems start in the early hours, when she becomes restless and hard to settle. She frequently wakes at 2am, and just wants to be up. She's not especially hungry and just frets and whines for an hour or 2, by which point she is hungry. So of course I feed her, but by that point I've been up for hours with her. She tends to sleep well again until morning after her feed.

I deal with it by trying to sooth her with the minimal amount of fuss, in the dark, no talking etc. Maybe a quick cuddle or a dummy. But if the dummy goes, she gets upset again. My older DD is in the next room so I don't want to disturb her either.

I'm shattered, and just wondered if any of you have had the same kind of thing with your babies. I'm starting to get really worried that this is a sign that maybe she is just a poor sleeper, and no-matter what we do, or how consistent we are, she will never be a good sleeper. Maybe it's just because I'm tired and emotional (read due on!) but I've got visions of us having a 3 year old who is up 5 times a night!!

For info - have tried co-sleeping (it's not really my thing, but tried in case it was what baby wanted) and she wouldn;t settle at all. She likes her own room, her own basket and to be swaddled to within an inch of her life! She sleeps ok in the day - hour in the morning, few hours over lunch, cat-nap of 30 mins or so at 4-5 ish.

Please tell me that all this might not mean she'll always be a crap night sleeper! Is there anything I can do to help her settle herself?

Here have a cup of tea and (whole packet of) biscuits....

I have same problem DD slept well (thru from 3m) but DS is a very different story at 11m when we treat/ed them the same.

Sorry, not what you want to hear... just rest/sleep when you can, CBeebies is your friend and keep muttering "this to shal pass"

DD did this before I took the dummy away. I let her cry for a bit then she settled herself back to sleep. She still cries now before every nap and at night - life's just too exciting and she doesn't want to sleep (she's nearly 1).

Have you tried putting her on her tummy?

Thanks Pompotty, I think I partly need a dose of reality. If she's just going to be a crap sleeper, I would rather just face the fact rather than delude myself!

Chabby- doesn;t like her tummy but has to be swaddled or she won'r settle. DD1 was also swaddled, but was through the night and in her gro-bag by now.aaahhhhh. How did you take the dummy away, how did you know when it was time?

Some nights I can't help but get cross that she's so reliant on a dummy to fall to sleep. I wonder if she were to give it up, if she would learn to re-settle on her own without the prop

Well I waited til 6 months as I was scared about coping without it but wish I'd done it sooner.

Oooh, how should I do it. I'm knackered now, might as well get it over with...

Threw them all away! Looking back it was silly to be so nervous about it. First night she cried for 45 minutes, second night only 5. See how it goes, your dd is still very young - depends on how you feel about crying.

I'm stressed out about the dummy thing. Looking back, DD1 had a dummy, but seemed to rely on it less to help her sleep. Hers was used more to soothe her if she was in new situations. Sleep just wasn't the challenge for her as it is for number 2.

I'll strat the withdrawal process I think. At the moment, when she wakes in the night she needs something to re-settle her, I might be harsh and let her just get on with it... wish me luck!

Good luck! And don't take them away then give them back, do it properly!

Good grief, you're panicking waaaay too early!! She's still tiny, absolutely tiny and there are so many things that can disturb them when they are little. My DS was a terrible, terrible sleeper for the first year of his life - he used to wake every 15 minutes through the night or be awake for 3 or 4 hours in the middle of the night for no discernbile reason. By about 14 months we had managed to sort it out and he's been a good sleeper ever since.

What happens if you just feed her when she wakes at 2am? With my 9 week old when she keeps spitting the dummy out I assume she's hungry and feed her, this usually settles her down.

It could also be habit if it's happening at the same time every night. You could try feeding her at 1.30ish and re-settling her. This could 're-set' her clock and get her past that 2am wake up.

I really wouldn't worry - she is teeny tiny! At this age, my DS would be awake crying for up to 2 hours after every night feed. By 3.5 months he was feeding straight to sleep after every night feed. I didn't do anything - he just got more settled as he got older. Many babies don't become more settled until 3-4 months.

At this age, the likelihood is that however she's sleeping, it'll be completely different in a fortnight's time, whatever you do.

I do think that some babies do find it generally harder to sleep than others, though - although IMO this can change at points.

And sending virtual hobnobs and tea! :)

It is horrible, but looking back, you'll be amazed how short a time it lasted, although it will feel like forever now.

It is very early. My experience fwiw is this.

Ds1 barely slept, day or night, for the first 12 weeks. At 12 weeks he got a bit better, at 16 weeks he dlpt through the night and has done so ever since (albeit waking earlier than I might like in the morning).
Ds2 slept a lot as a baby, slept through the night quite early on and was a dream baby. Then it all went wrong at about 9 months and most nights since he has woken for no obvious reason (hunger, cold, hot, etc) and has generally been much harder work. He's 2.5 now. Last night I had to go into him 3 times.

What I'm trying to say (albeit in a tired and slighltly drunk state) is that 12 weeks is far too early to know what they're going to be like. A helluva lot can change in those next few weeks and months.

does sound like right time for massive growth spurt too, i have 3 dc and each time 11-15 weeks very unpredictable for sleep, and have reasonably good sleepers now

Crazy, I saw this post on the Ask Moxie parenting blog which was from someone with a very similar issue - thought some of the comments might be helpful to you.

Hey, thanks guys! I'm so pleased that you all responded and took the time. Cheered me up noooo end! Thanks for the link Angel - I'll have a gander.

I think you're all right, she just needs time to learn how to settle herself. I'm just so used to having a good sleeper in DD1, I sometimes can't get my head round the fact that DD2 finds it so much harder. For the life of me though, I cannot fathom how she won't yet sleep longer than a few hours in the night, but I guess it'll come!

Hi crazyOVERbaby ,you poor thing .I think she is just so used to the dummy.My little boy was the same .At 9 weeks I was so tired I had to get help .I contacted Jo Tantum and she came for 3 days and nights to help me .She taught my baby to sleep without the dummy starting with the daytime naps using her spaced soothing .It really worked her website is www.babysecretsltd.com
Hope she helps you xx

fwiw dd2 was a pretty crappy sleeper at this age (unlike her big sister) and I too thought it would go on forever...would only take short daytime naps too. However she did get better (and then worse and then better etc for quite a while) and started sleeping through around 10 months. She is 17m now and a consistently good sleeper.

Maybe you could try putting her to bed later in the evening?

There is no such thing as bad or good when it comes to babies sleeping. In the early days they need to be fed around the clock. As they grow, they are still undeveloped and their sleep patterns are completely different from adult or even older toddler and child sleep patterns. I would say, at 11 weeks, your baby is probably hungry when she wakes at 2am.

My situation crazy is exactly the same as yours. I swear I could have written it! Dc2is just finding his fingers so by fourmontgs I'm probably going to remove dummy for good. Once done no going back otherwise I reckon it's simp,y confusing and unfair to allow it sometimes and not others. I did this with dc1 who was dependent on dummy to sleep and barely a murmur.... Fingers crossed!

All babies are different and sometimes you have to go with the flow, know it's not forever and you will cope with sleep deprivation even though it can seem like you are on the edge of reason some days.

That said, you could try pre emptive feeding, wake yourself (I know - why would you!?!) around 1:30 (three hours after her last feed and before she usually wakes). Do a sleepy feed and don't worry if she doesn't feed much but do offer both sides. This pre emptive feed might get her through and get her used to not being awake at this time. If it works, and she settles better, do it for a while (a week at least) then see what time she wakes on her own (hopefully it will be later!) then start again.

All babies are different so if it doesn't work - give up and try something else!!

Raejj - how do you go about removing the dummy? DD1 just spat it out one day at 4 months and wouldn't have it again!! In hinesight I don't actually think she's such a crap sleeper. At the end of the day, she goes to bed at 6.30 without any fuss, allows me to wake and feed her at 10.30 before going back to sleep without any fuss and feeds in the night and goes back to sleep. I think I'm just frustrated that she won't seem to go longer than 4 hours. I suppose as soon as she's big enough, she'll stop waking in the night.

Maybe she is a baby who would like to feed to sleep? I fed all 4 of mine to sleep and had no problems at all with frequent night waking.

I just took it away for her first nap of the day! I expected 3 days of tears and a lot of shushing and patting a la baby whisperer methods. I also started on a Friday morning and advised husband I'd do day one myself and together we'd do days 2 and 3. Once I took it away no going back. I felt otherwise all the tears would be for nothing and babies understand consistency. As it was by some Great Miracle she simply stuck her fingers in her mouth and er went to sleep. Ok so her two front teeth are going wonky and she still sucks her fingers now but it wasbizarely easy! If only dc2 would be so easy.... Maybe baby maybe but I doubt I'll be that lucky twice.

I'll give it a try.x