7 month old woes

[AngelDog]

Just a rant, really - I wanted to get this off my chest and there's only so much whingeing I can inflict on DH.

DS has never been a great sleeper but now wakes 2 hourly through the night. Usually he wants to either play or feed when he wakes up. I always feed him and he generally goes back off. He sleeps on a mattress on the floor next to me so I can feed him lying down and not worry about moving him after feeds.

Last night I fed him at 02.45 and didn't manage to get him back off till around 5.45am as he wanted to roll and play on his stomach. I didn't manage to get back to sleep at all - boo.

During the day I feed him to sleep. He will feed to sleep and stay asleep on my lap, but if I try to put him down, he wakes instantly and won't go back to sleep. Previous attempts to feed him to sleep while lying down & then leave him on the bed have been unsuccessful as he's not that keen on feeding lying down during the day.

Pushchair / car naps often involve a lot of shrieking before DS goes to sleep (if he does), and he usually wakes after 20 mins unless you're still moving. The sling always works but I'm not supposed to use it due to suspected back problems.

I have about a million things to do in the house and am beginning to get a bit fed up. We have Very Low Standards when it comes to the housework but DS is now picking up bits of dirt around his mouth when he's playing on his tummy.

DH helps (bless the man, he made cakes last night - neither of us copes without it!) but I do all the nights since he's had problems with insomnia in the past, and hasn't been able to get DS to sleep without the sling or pram since he was a few weeks old.

I know it'll pass. I just wish it would hurry up!

Moan over...

Oh i feel your pain.

DS3 is a week short of seven months and he wakes most of the night too. I put it down to the fact that we've just moved him from his crib by the side of me to the cot at the end of the bed. He sleeps well from about 8.30pm to 1.30am, and then he's awake every hour or so wanting feeding/to play, and finally wakes for the day around five.

Hard work, isn't it?

Ah, I didn't think I'd be alone.

I saw 3 of my mummy friends today. 2 babies are sleeping through. "Well, not quite through, she sometimes wakes at 6.15 or 6.30" Fortunately for my sanity the other 7 month old wakes every 2 hours too.

I feel relatively cheerful at the moment, but who knows what tonight may bring?

Mind, there is a tooth to come through the gum in the next couple of days, so maybe that will improves matters.

Hi angeldog, omg you poor thing and god love your DH he sounds an angel.
Funnily enough my DH made a cake the night before last!
I have no idea if this is yet another sleep regression - every day and night seem different don't they?!
Is your LO weaned? My DD is now on 3 meals a day albeit stage 1 puree at will be 7 mo in a week, but since she started eating, she has dropped her dream feed by herself. She eats like a hippo and has tea at 5pm then a bottle at bedtime and that is her until morning (apart from her waking for a cuddle at 2am that is) and to be fair isn't ravenous at 6.30am either.
What's the mantra? It will pass it will pass it will pass........................... .

Hi Angel. Me and my neighbour had very similar babies at that age - similar to yours!It made me feel a lot better to moan with someone who knew what it was like.

It will pass - and it kind of has passed in my case - but we had to take a bit of action. No idea if it worked and would have passed anyway, but I had to do something.

DS used to nap on me until quite recently in the day. I got really fed up too and decided I had to get him in the cot for at least one nap a day. I kept trying over and over - I'd try three times and give up and let him sleep on me (I still feed to sleep). Gradually I could get him in the cot for one nap, now he takes all of his naps in the cot. I know you said he wont go back to sleep - I rock DS to sleep if he wont feed to sleep. Sometimes work, sometimes doesn't.

For the nights, I had to look at his solids in the day. As he has reflux, I can only give him really boring stuff otherwise he gets bad wind. No green veg at dinner, no beef (triggers reflux ), no onions/garlic/leeks, no dairy, no soya, no wheat, no fruit after lunchtime!!!! The list goes on...... I was talking to my friend who has a baby and lives in the States - over there, they say certain foods shouldn't be introduced until 1 whereas here we are told they can be at 6 months. They might be on to something...

Have you ever tried resettling without a feed? I've done it a few times thinking it wont work but sometimes it does.

There is the sleep regression too which you know all about

Yes, of course, Iggly! My plan had been to sit tight until the next regression was past, but I'm having second thoughts now.

As per Weissbluth, I'm going to have a go at putting him down for the first nap. I think I've had some success in getting it at a more consistent time, which is good. He used to be able to be put down for naps, so in theory he ought to do it again. (Ha ha! )

DS rarely resettles in the early evening without a feed (I tried tonight in fact). In the middle of the night though I have sometimes managed it when he's refused to feed. I might have a go later if I'm awake enough.

I've been re-reading the NCSS but I'm still dithering as to whether to try it now or wait till after the regression, as I have a horrible suspicion that just as I'm seeing progress, everything will go mental.

How did the sleep regression pan out for you?

The problems with wind seem to have subsided, which is good. I think things took a while to go through him as he was awake with wind even after I'd been too busy to give him dinner. But I might keep a record of what he's eaten - thanks for the tips.

Did you have a good birthday?

fhutts, yes, my DH is a star. We know things are seriously bad here when the cake supplies start running low. Sleep I can (just) live without - but cake...

Birthday was lovely ta - went out for an evening meal for the first time since DS was born! And he slept til 1am!

I decided I'd ignore the sleep regressions and be consistent as much as possible when it came to naps and bedtime and night wakings. So for example, put him down in the cot for naps at regular times a la Weiss, early bedtime and DH would resettle for night wakings unless DS was protesting then I'd feed. DS went through a horrid phase of not settling between 2-5am then waking at 5am. I refused to get him up until 6am - usually meant I'd have him on me dozing til it was time to get up.

Early bedtime was also good at getting DS to catch up on lost sleep from poor naps or night wakings.

The last regression at 9 months was hard but I think being consistent helped me and DS as he'd know what to expect! Now he doesn't fight naps although he's not self settlig for naps - I'm still working on it!

I adopted a three strikes then give up approach as well so even if things didn't work, at least I tried!

No idea if that makes any sense - I'm tired as DS is yet to sleep through. Getting close though - he's down to one night waking now which is nice

How was your birthday - I did ask on another thread I think!

. There's a 7 month regression too?! At this rate, we'll still be recovering from 4 months.. Better get my DH to get the baking tin out! Sympathy to those going through it.

I hope you don't mind me joining this thread for a moan too.

DD is 7 months and has always been a terrible nighttime sleeper - but was particularly hit hard by 4 month sleep regression (Angeldog - you gave me some great links about it). She's great during the day now - self settles and the length of naps are growing. But nights have been terrible. She settle fine in the evening and self weaned off night feeds a while back - I could cope when she would be fed back to sleep but now I just don't know how to settle her. She's never been one for rocking to sleep, she won't co-sleep, she has a cuddly toy with her but it doesn't seem to make much difference. She had got into a pattern of waking at 12 and staying awake till 2, or more often 3 am. And then up for the day at 5:30! I would try shushing with a hand on her chest which worked for a while but then just seemed to keep her awake. She'd be quiet while I was in her room but then scream the second I left.

So in desperation we've tried a week of controlled crying. It breaks my heart but she has consistently gone back to sleep after around 30 minutes of crying each night and then slept through till morning, and even slept through one night. I don't know whether this is progress or not, and whether to continue. She's getting more sleep than when she was up for hours in the night but ....AAARRRGH. Anyway - I kind of feel better now for just writing it all down. One day at a time eh?

ANTMaddict, not at all - it's always good to get things off your chest! :) Glad those regression link were helpful - I tell everyone about them!

Iggly, thanks. Glad you had a good time and well done to your DS! I did see your question & posted a response but I think my computer crashed before posting it. I spent my birthday driving to Devon with a DS who doesn't like car naps, so it wasn't as fun as yours!

suchanamateur, not sure whether it's really a regression or just my DS being difficult! But having DH on standby with baking tin is never a bad idea.

So, last night:

18.45 bed; passed out on breast (overtired, missed last nap as I was trying to put him down)
19.30 woke, fed.
21.00 woke, rocked successfully but yelled every time I put him down. Fed.
Slept till 00.45 when woke rolling and wanting to play. Ignored. Awake till 02.15 when I settled him by patting.
Slept till 05.30 when woke crying. Fed.
Slept with me cuddling him till I got us up at 06.30.

So a great improvement on the previous night, although the hour and a half playing leaves something to be desired.

I managed to put him in his cot for his first nap at about 9am. :) He woke after 10 mins . I re-fed and put him down again. Woke 5 mins later. Re-fed and rocked for about 15 mins and he eventually went off and slept on my lap for 30 mins. He's now asleep on my lap for his second nap (1pm ish, as per Weissbluth).

So, The Plan:

• Try to settle without feeding at night.
• Introduce music cue when drowsy to use as sleep association
• Try a bit of Pantley Pull Off
• Attempt naps at 9am and 1pm ish, maybe another if necessary.
• 1 or 2 attempts to go in cot for first nap.
• Keep subsequent nap(s) on my lap for now to avoid nap refusal & overtiredness.
• Early bedtime - him & me!

Sound good?

Ooh, I think DS has finally got round to reading HSHHC and realising what he's supposed to do. First nap 9am. Woke after 45 mins from his 1pm nap, I fed him again and he is off for another sleep cycle - most unusual.

Iggly, I think I should employ you as my personal sleep advisor. :)

Am so pleased that I'm not alone! Although sad that others are going through it as well, IYSWIM. DS now wakes more often during the night than he did as a newborn! I'm putting it down to teething and also definite progression towards crawling during the day. Starting to worry about getting back to work next month though, not sure how I'll cope on so much disturbed sleep. I still feed to sleep before all naps and also at night although over the past 3 days I've introduced reading a book and that now has him rubbing his eyes so a possible way forward for the future.

Am feeling everyone elses' pain :(

angel I'm not sure about that - still not got the full night unbroken yet! Although I must have jinxed it - DS woke up twice last night. Not bad compared to previous terrible nights but still!

Glad to hear your DS is finally succumbing to HSHHC.... I'm waiting for the Ferber book to turn up from the States. Not that I'm actually going to do CC (not a chance in hell!) but really looking forward to reading the theory

Iggly, of course you're not going to do CC: you're a HSHHC girl. You're going to put DS in his room, close the door and leave him to scream.

Seriously, I think Weissbluth is the best argument against 'let cry' methods. One of the parent quotes says how their baby cried for several hours - and then cried for at least 30 mins before going to sleep for at least three weeks afterwards. I can see how people try CC when they're desperate, but that is just horrible.

I'm still dithering as to whether to buy the Ferber book so let me know what you think when it arrives.

To be fair to the man, I think he invented CC as a slightly gentler approach than Weissbluth's. Not that I'd consider using it on DS, mind.

carirnterrier, your book idea sounds promising. We have a bedtime book and DS loves it - he always stops crying for the story, even if overtired - but it doesn't help him get sleepy!

Actually, Iggly, IIRC I have you to thank for having avoided lots of crying in the early days. DS would only nap in the sling and DH kept saying we should put him down & leave him to cry (as all the HCPs had advised us ). Someone here - I think it was you - posted about how their overtired baby just screamed in the car until they choked, rather than going to sleep. I showed it to DH and he agreed that using the sling to avoid overtiredness was a better solution. :)

Good naps and early bedtime definitely seem to have helped.

Every time DS woke last night I resettled without feeding. Only took about 2 mins each time apart from the 8.15pm waking, which took a bit longer. He slept his way through one cycle without help, I think, as I slept for 3.5 hours at once.

He woke up at the usual time.

No real crying, no wanting to roll around & play in the middle of the night. :)

Progress. So far, anyway.

Great news angel

And and leaving DS to scream as per Weissbluth. I don't think the neighbours would approve for one thing. I remember the ILs telling me about the wonders of controlled crying (as SIL used it on 2 out of her 3 - although didn't work for the 3rd) then letting slip that they'd just left BIL to cry. MIL was obviously still guilty nearly 40 years later as she said, with a sad look on her face, "we left him to cry for too long" :(

I would love to take credit - but I'm not sure the car screaming was me (although I have vague recollections of that sort of thing happening but we rarely used the car in the early days so possibly not. I seemed to have blanked out the worst of it). I do remember he'd turn into a limp arms limp legged zombie with glazed eyes when overtired (this would go on for hours whilst we tried to get him to sleep) then he'd break into screams. It was horrid.

DS decided three wake up last night I made the mistake of giving him three bits of runner bean at lunch time (three inch sized pieces for him to self feed) and it gave him terrible wind!!! Ridiculous.

Oh and the Ferber book should arrive before I go on holiday on 21 Aug so will take it with me to read and let you know!

.

Was reading this as also got a 7 month old whose sleep has worsened recently and saw the comment about Ferber and Pantley. I have both so thought I'd say what I thought.

Ferber is quite technical. Very useful chapter on how we sleep and how children differ and how theirs develops (or not!). Covers quite a wide age / development range so has ideas for sleep walking, nightmares, jet lag etc (although quite frankly if we're having problems now I personally feel we should be exempt from them later on thank you!). Less about how to tackle problems and case examples are often older children.

Pantley - easy to read. Doing sleep log quite useful and easy to implement sensible ideas (she doesn't like CC). However can come across as a bit simplistic. Like the fact she is a parent and has been there (unlike you know who who can't be named).

They disagree on how much sleep children should get at certain ages. Have found both useful though

LovingKent - thanks for dropping in and it was useful to hear more about what Ferber thinks. I agree we should definitely be exempt from future problems. :)

I too have read different things about how much sleep children need. Apparently children (not babies IIRC) today are getting on average an hour's less sleep than they were 30 years ago, which is not doing them any good.

Iggly - Oh, I remember the zombie overtired days so well. For some reason my DS would just sit there staring out of the window for ages, until you picked him up, at which point the screaming would start.

Your poor DS (and you!) with what he eats having such a big effect on him.

On the Weissbluth CIO method, I reckon all his clients must have detached houses. And maybe nannies so the parents don't have to listen to the shrieking.

And we continue to have progress.

The 2-3-4(ish) pattern for the day is clearly what DS needs now. He's ended up rather overtired before most naps for various reasons, but he's been sleeping around 35-40 mins in the morning and 2 hours at lunchtime (although I've had to re-feed him between sleep cycles then). That means he's been having more daytime sleep than at any time since he was about 3 months old.

I have even managed to put him in the cot twice - he is asleep there now. As ever, timing is everything - if he's overtired, I can't put him down. Even if not overtired, he doesn't like being put down, but I've sat by the cot and patted him every time he stirs until he's in a deep sleep and it seems to work.

At night I've been patting him the instant he wakes, and waiting by his cot ready for the 45 mins after bedtime waking which is very predictable. Last night he only woke me up once! so it does seem to be working.

I think the combination of more daytime sleep + resettling without feeding is what's made the difference.

So thanks, Iggly, for giving me the prompt about the daytime routine - I knew about the pattern but I was expecting that following DS's tired signs would get us there. Actually, it seems to work best if I ignore his tired signs - some of them are actually overtired signs, it seems (although others are completely random and meaningless).

Hooray angeldog . Agree that timing is everything. If DS is overtired we can put him down but will then spend the best part of an hour or two going in and out.

Adopted a new bedtime routine - wash / bath, feed, story, quiet play and singing in dark. DS gets quite wired after feed so that way he goes in cot much calmer. 3 nights in and its much better - settling quickly.

Think its teeth that are waking DS in the night - very chompy and dribbly in the day and a bit grumpy. Gave calpol last night and he slept from dreamfeed until 06:30am - hooray!! Hopefully he won't need calpol every night to do this......

Excellent news, LovingKent.

Pesky teeth, eh?

That's great angel! it's so satisfying to help them on their way isn't it? I had read about the tired signs being unreliable post 6 months on the baby whisperer website

I obviously missed that bit on the sleep section of the BW website I've looked at.

Actually, it's nice to find I'm not the only geeky type around. My DH had to institute a 'three strikes and you're out' policy on conversations about baby sleep

DS slept for two and three quarter hours at lunchtime (I re-fed him once). Both Elizabeth Pantley and the Millpond Sleep Clinic people say that if you help them get off again for the next cycle during naps, they should begin to start doing it themselves within a week or so. Maybe there's a chance of me getting some time to myself in the day, then! :)