Right, what am I not trying... help please!

[FlightofFancy]

Need some serious sleep advice before I put DS on ebay (free to a good home...). Sorry, it's going to be a long one - thanks in advance if you've got the patience.

He's nearly 7mo, and I've had it with getting up anything up to 4 times between 11pm and 7am, and he's just added wanting to start the day at 5.30am, which is the final straw.

I've got NCSS and read some of the Sears Baby Sleep book and this what I do so far:

• he generally naps well during the day. Somewhere between 45mins-1 hour around 9-10am; around 1hr 30-2hrs somewhere between 12-2.30pm; then occasionally a 20-30min catnap sometime between 4-5pm. Occasionally these go wrong, but more often than not he's getting around 3hrs sleep during day. This stops him being a terror. Day is fairly structured most of the time, but flexible routine.

• he can self settle if he wants. Can generally leave him awake/awake-ish for naps and in the evening as long as he's not hungry. Will sometimes whinge self to sleep, but not crying

• he's got a comfort toy in cot, which he cuddles/chews at sleep time

• any night feeds/interventions we do completely in the dark/silence. Only do nappy change if leak etc.

• he won't cosleep; hates sleeping cuddled up and just spends his time hitting me and wriggling to get away. Plus I'm not a fan anyway, so this really isn't an option. He's been in his own room for a few months, and is happy there

• he's mainly breastfed, and is doing well with solids, and on 3 meals a day. I'm just introducing meat/fish. Amount he eats during day doesn't seem to make any bloody difference to night waking. We've introduced a bottle of formula at 10.30pm ish (instead of BF) so I get a break. He'll usually have between 3-5oz then push bottle away. Try to do this as dreamfeed, but often he wakes first (can be as early as 9.30). I've tried to increase BF during the day, but he'll just arch away and fight me and scream at me if not interested. Can happily go from 8.30am til midday without feed, so no idea why not capable of this at night!

• bedtime is quite structured, with tea, bath, boob and bed. He generally settles well and is asleep by 7pm

• because he's in his own room and we don't have a monitor set up (very small house), I don't respond to every snuffle/squeak at night, he's got to be properly calling for me (though usually get him before he's crying)

• I've tried not feeding him when he wakes in the night, but that ends in frantic rooting, bouncing up and down on me in hysterics. Feeding seems to be quickest way back to bed for both of us

I'm not aiming for sleeping through, I just want it cut it down to two, ideally one, feed between 11pm and 7am, cut out the early start to the day and get some kind of consistency. I wouldn't mind 2 feeds as long as they were at reasonably similar times - used to sleep 11-2 then 2.15-4 then 4.15-7, which was fine. I just can't BEAR going to sleep not knowing how long for.

Is he just a hungry baby, am I missing something really key that I can try, or is he taking me for an idiot? Help!!

Regarding the early morning waking, is the nursery blacked out? At a loss for any other advice seems like you are doing everything! Sorry, hopefully someone else will come along who is more helpful!

Regarding the early morning waking, is the nursery blacked out? At a loss for any other advice seems like you are doing everything! Sorry, hopefully someone else will come along who is more helpful!

Ooops, sorry for posying twice! Just been having a think, it seems like he is having problems self-settling at night and is relying on the boob when he comes into light sleep to settle back off. Somehow and it will be difficult as you are already soooooo tired you need to break this cylce of his relying on the boob to settle back off at night. Decide when you want to feed him (say 3.00am and I always feed back to sleep for early morning wakings so they don't become habbit and 5.30am) and all other times refuse to feed. He will be really annoyed but hopefully will get the meassage after a few nights of setlling back to sleep using cuddles etc. I went through this about a month ago with my lo (who is now 7months also) andit was hard but she did get the meassge in the end, also it was helped by us moving her into her own room, which I know you have already done! Good Luck!

Sounds like you're doing everything right, which must make it all the more frustrating!

If he's 7 months and solids are established, sounds like there's no nutritional need for him to wake, so maybe you could 'get tough!'

If you can't bear to leave him to cry (I know I can't) I'd be giving him water in the night until he gets the message. It won't be pretty, but it will probably work in the end.

You must be buggered flower, hope you find something that works in the end!

Thanks both! Yes, we've got black-out blind on window, so is lovely and dark in there!

Right, I think you're right that I need to be tough. Perhaps if anything before 3am gets water and cuddles - he's more than capable of going 4 hours without food! I also can't do leaving to cry (aside from emotional aspect, we live in a terraced house, and I like our neighbours!)

He might be having a growth spurt - mine did around that age. Also how much milk is he actually taking in the day? Does he get distracted?

And the idea that babies "shouldn't" wake up hungry after 6 months is a myth.

Also there is the risk that with solids he gets full on lower calorie food but wakes up hungry in the night as milk is very calorific. Are you feeding him any ready made stuff - sometimes it has a lot of water in to bulk out? Or empty calorie stuff like rice cakes?

There is also the chance that the solids are giving him a tummy ache or he's not quite used to the new feelings, especially now you've started with meat and fish. My DS got quite bad wind with certain foods (green veg and lentils the main culprits) so I don't give anything like that at dinner otherwise he'd be up a lot. Just starch and meat which is easy to digest (e.g potatoes/rice and chicken etc).

There is also a bit of a developmental leap around this age as well which messes with the sleep! Is he trying to do anything new? For example my DS's sleep went mental when he was learning to wave. It's gone crazy again recently as he's trying to stand unaided and babbling like mad so is trying to talk a bit. (he's 10 months next week).

Try and tweak what you give at dinner and go easy with the introduction of meat. If you make lunch the main meal with a balance of protein and carbs, dinner can be a bit more of an energy boost to get him to go longer at night.

HTH

Maybe have a chat to your neighbours that you are going to try and reduce number of night feeds but that you are going to try re-settling without feeding and cuddles etc instead so there might be a few tears but hopefully it will be short-lived and then you won't feel so stressed in the night worrying about the neighbours on top of everything else!

I forgot to add - if I'd figured out what was bothering DS and could solve it he would self settle in the night no problems (e.g. bad wind from green veg). I'd hear him wake, babble, then fall asleep again. So if he's waking it usually means something's up.

oh my i could have written your post! its so frutrating, particularly when you look at a list of 'what to do if you baby isn't sleeping through' and you are doing all of it .

i don't know what to say - i think igglybuff speaks the truth, and sleep defo goes bananas when their brain is going bonkers too! we had the most horrendous couple of nights just before DS starting jungle crawling around the place.

slept well on cheesy potatoes and brocolli

doesn't settle well if overtired (very difficult as he has just dropped the third nap)

i am going to try water before milk (basically diluting his breastfeed) so he starts making up he calories at the wake up feed.

DS was going bananas for food at 8/9 months - eating shed loads!

Thanks Igglybuff - you might be right on the food. He's so keen to eat that I may be rushing slightly as he'll try anything. And I do tend to do big meals in the evening, thinking it might keep him full. My home cooking is quite heavy on the lentils for him as well - they're just so easy! Will try some carb heavy stuff in the evenings - like the sound of cheesy spuds Ruby!

It is probably also developmental stuff - he's very late learning to roll over (can sit up happily for hours, but not roll - contrary child) and teeth are bothering him as well.

Has shot from 75 percentile to 91st in the last month, so guessing growth spurts has something in there as well.

Sigh.

Will work on not feeding before 3am and tweaking the evening meals and see if that helps!

Good luck! I found sweet potato based food goes down a right treat

oh yes - teeth! they cause havoc

hang in there!

How very frustrating for you.

Could it be too dark for him at night? I've heard that babies can get a bit upset if it's too dark in their room.

Do you have DP who could try to settle DS at night for the non-feeding waking?

yankbabymum Thanks - I think he's OK with the dark - his first few months in our bedroom it was pitch dark, and he's been OK until recently.

I must admit that I'm trying to be kind to my DH - so he doesn't do night feeds during the week when he's got to be awake for work. We split weekend feeds, so he's in charge of anything before 3am and I do anything after! Last night was slightly better - dreamfeed at 10.30, feed at 2am and 4am. But still a wakeup and 5am. However, Anbesol and Calpol administered and he went back to sleep, so it could be the teeth.

The grand plan for tonight is water before 2.30am... then will push back to 3 the following night if that works! Cross fingers...

Good Luck!