Advice on advice from HV!

[RachelsFirst]

Hi all,
I went to see my HV for advice about my 4.5mth dd who has not been sleeping well. She tends to fight sleep before nap times and can really scream the house down. She needs to be swaddled, rocked and walked all at the same time. If I stop or sit down the screaming escalates and on and on...
HV said I should just leave her in her cot and pat her until she stops crying. In my experience this has only frustrated dd more as she's lying there thinking 'if ur here then why the hell aren't u picking me up?.' and the screaming gets worse not better.
If I try this, Is this cc??
My dd also wakes at 4am daily after going to bed at 730pm, so she's told me to wake her for her last feed at 1030pm, not dream feed her and then she might sleep through.
Does anyone have experience of either of these techniques or whether I should use them??
Thank u!

If you've tried that technique (patting) and it doesn't work, that suggests that you should be looking for a different trick. If you bf you could try feeding to sleep - made our lives easier - though others may say that is a bad habit to get into. Does she stay awake at 4am or go back to sleep? If the former, you have my sympathy!

Ignore your HV if it doesn't work. I found that my DS would only feed or be rocked to sleep at that age.

She sounds overtired (your DD) so leaving her to scream will mean she'll pass out eventually from exhaustion. Not great.

First off, you should put your baby to bed earlier - this should help with the early waking although might take a few nights. I'd go for 6.30pm after a very very short routine (forget bedtime stories, just a quick wash, change, feed in low light and get to sleep however you would normally).

Also get some decent blackout blinds if you haven't already.

Secondly, try and sort out the day naps. Don't let her stay awake more than an hour after she wakes up in the morning. Watch very closely for tired signs before each nap and get napping asap! My DS would only last about 60-90 mins max and I had to make sure he was napping within that timeframe otherwise he'd have a meltdown.

Ignore health visitor.

Iggly gives good advice about not getting overtired & naps.

Does she have a dummy? DD used to need to be swaddled, rocked, dummied and sang to. Think we finally stopped swaddling for naps when she was 1 (and only because she was getting too hot!)

Thx everyone. I didn't feel patting would get me anywhere but wasn't sure whether it was worth a try - now I know!
chocmoose - I've just stopped bf, but even when I was bf she would throw herself back and cry if I tried to feed her to sleep (maybe she knew it would make her sleepy??)
iggly - I've been putting her to bed 60-75 mins after she's been awake but however early I take her to her room I can never seem to prevent her from getting to the screaming stage (it usually starts as soon as I put her down to swaddle her and goes on from there...). Today I had her in her room at 610pm and asleep by 7pm.
Naps are 3/day varying from 30mins to 2hours if I use nap blending or the pram.
mrsjuan - tried dummy endlessly but she gets so frustrated with them (she's a spirited little one) that she spits it out and it angers her even more!!

What do u all think about waking her at 1030pm for the last feed of the day?

Thank u all again - nice to have a sounding board (dh not quite on same level as us MNers )

Sounds very similar to my 5.5 month old. Impossible to get her to sleep day or night. Though if I try to wake her or do dream feed at 10pm she just won't feed.

I spend my life rocking, pram pushing, bouncing on birth ball, feeding to sleep etc, and she's very hard to put down without her waking up again and screaming the place down cos she's tired.

Now she's nearly 18lb my arms and back can't take it any longer, so I'm trying to gradually phase in the shush patting thing at night time (will sort naps out later). There's no chance she'd go to sleep if I put her in the cot awake but I'm trying to gradually reduce how deeper sleep she needs to be in before I put her in the cot. I'm getting very slight improvement (she would normally need to be asleep at night time for 30 mins in arms before any chance of putting her down, I've had 2 sucesses this week with only 5 mins of sleep before put down to shh pat).

I found if i bounced my hand on the mattress as well as shushing and holding her hand that helped.

DD doesn't like dummies either, but black out blinds are good!

Good luck.

Some good advice above.

My HV told me I should wean my 2 m.o.DS off the sling by putting him in his cot & leaving him to cry or he'd never sleep without it. I ignored her and it turned out she was wrong - he sleeps in his cot now.

You could try a sling; or pram or car. Don't worry too much about the cot at this stage.

I wouldn't wake for a last feed at 10.30pm - not many babies go through the night at that age with the last feed at that time. More likely she'll want another feed in the night, especially if she has a growth spurt.

I didn't bother doing anything like that and just let DS wake when he was ready. He did sometimes naturally wake around then but sometimes he wakes earlier, other times later.

Just read your second post - does she cry when you put her down on her back to swaddle? Is this quite soon after a feed? What happens if you don't put her on her back - just hold her in your arms firmly and settle her that way?

Basically I'm wondering if your DD has wind or reflux - so lying her on her back too soon after a feed is painful so she screams. Screaming then makes her take down more wind, making it more painful etc etc. Also throwing herself back when you tried to BF her is a clue. Bottle feeding can be more comfortable as she'll be more upright.

Has she become worse since you switched to formula? Some babies are intolerant to cow's milk which can cause silent reflux (heartburn) hence the screaming.

If so, try making her more comfortable by giving smaller and more frequent feeds in the day, hold upright for 30 mins after a feed (by winding then pop in sling or bouncy chair) and putting her cot on an incline - you can use these. Also don't feed before a nap, feed on waking.

if this helps, then it could be reflux. I'd speak to your HV or GP as they can recommend formula which is easier to digest.

HTH

iggly my dd has reflux and has been on omeprazole since she was 8 weeks. It's much better than it was. Since switching to ff there's been no real change in her behaviour but she has brought up 2 or 3 very large volume vomits. Ive been using aptamil but I think I'll call my gp today asking for an alternative - thx !
Gracie sorry to hear about ur back - I totally sympathize!! I had been getting dd used to sleeping without being rocked but since my dh has taken over bedtime routines a week ago we're back to square one with rocking etc,..

I did end up waking her for her 1030pm feed last night - she was so drowsy I felt awful trying to wake her. She then ended up bringing up about half a bottle (!!!) when I burped her so she woke fully when I changed her. She was quite happy though and not upset at all. Rocked to sleep by 1130pm then she was up at 6. Not bad! but not really sure if I want to be waking her at 1030 when she's been sleeping so soundly????

Right, off to try and get an appt with my gp (maybe they can fit me in by 2011??? )

[grin} GP appointments eh!

Reflux does peak around 4 months which could be causing problems?

I'm really interested in the 10.30 feed thing too. I feed mine at 10pm, and she wakes at approx 4am. A few times I have just left her to sleep from her 6.30 pm bedtime feed, as she was just so sleepy! She still went through till approx. 4am. Do you think I'm mad for feeding her still at 10pm?

My hubby thinks so, but she's only 7 weeks, so I worry about her not getting enough to eat. At 10pm she only takes about 3oz (compared to her usual 5) and doesn;t seem thhat interested.

There seems to be a school of thought that says to just leave them from their early evening feed, in case you disturb their natural feeding/sleeping cycle, which changes as they learn to go longer stretches on a night.

Does anyone have any experience of this? Would dearly love to drop the 10pm feed so I can go to bed!

Crazy if she sleeps through, then I would say don't bother.

I resisted my DH's suggestions of doing the 10pm feed as found it made no difference as DS just didn't want it. Now he's older, however, he does wake up naturally for it.

So I'd suggest just go with what your baby wants - I know I wouldn't want to be fed if not really hungry!