Your thoughts on breastfeeding policy and what could be done to improve it/ increase breastfeeding rates

[JustScreamMumsnet]

Hello Mumsnetters, we've managed to get a meeting with the person running the Government's breastfeeding initiative and would like to pass on Mumsnet's top suggestions for improving breastfeeding policy and to outline the key issues.

So let rip! But do bear in mind that there's probably bugger all in the pot, so, much as we'd all love to have a one to one breastfeeding counsellor for the first 48 hours for all type thing - that's probably not a realistic suggestion at this point.

Well yes, if it's optional then of course you won't attend if you think bf is a load of middle class, pfb bolleaux. Which isn't helpful.

I was really shocked how little the docs got because they are massively influential.

Lots and lots of good points on this thread.
My tuppenceworth:

• Encourage/incentivize hospitals to obtain Babyfriendly accreditation.

• For the government to sign up in full to the International Code of Marketing of Breastmilk Substitutes.

Achieving these two things would address quite a few of the issues that have been brought up.

I seemed to see lots of people who were passionate about b'feeding, but

a) seemed to think the best way to demonstrate a good latch was to grab my boob, grab dd's head and smoosh them together.

b) dissapeared after 5 minutes

c) completely ignored the fact that dd had a tongue tie, we both had thrush, and that me having blisters, bleeding and nipple fissures, was not just 'initial soreness'!

The fact that I saw a different person each time also really didn't help.

I think it is also tied up with better postnatal care in general, not being bossed about by stroppy MW's who act like they've seen it all before (that might have just been me - sorry), partners able to stay longer, buzzers that actually work (me again!). During a total 6 days stay in hospital after having dds 1 and 2, I think I met 2 MW's who didn't treat me as though I was just a pain in the arse ( maybe I am just a PITA!)

the before and after at my hospital when it got babyfriendly accreditation was phenomenal, i must say. it was a totally different ethos.

STICK TO THE INTERNATIONAL CODE - not the watered down UK version that allows advertising of Follow-On milks and unsubstantiated claims of the nutritional value of various brands of formula.

I like Aitch's suggestion of an NHS24 breastfeeding support line staffed by fully trained specialists - this would provide easily accessed practical help and show bf is a priority.

Technical information on breastfeeding as well as the advantages of it should be part of the school curriculum for all pupils with visiting specialists coming in at about age 14 - if younger, less educated mothers are more likely to FF, this might help counteract this as they'll be the first ones to decide how to feed a baby. It could also make younger fathers more aware of the need for BF so they are more supportive of their partners. It would at least spark classroom debate and discussion and get the issue talked about. It could also be linked into issues of food politics, so could be covered by Personal and Social Education as well as Politics and Citizenship?

I personally love the Brazilian government training up their posties to give bf advice while on their rounds! Perhaps it could form part of a new settlement to end the current Royal Mail strike?! Mind you, most of my posties don't even give the average nursing mother time to answer the door with their 'One Ring and Run' policy . I digress...

Also breastfeeding should be legally protected in public at any age throughout the UK, with an accompanying publicity campaign.

you know i've only just thought about this for the first time tonight but it really is a fucking OUTRAGE that something as essential as phone support is provided by charities, isn't it? i mean at a basic level there's yer answer, the govt really doesn't give a stuff about it.

Definitely more training for HCPs
Have said it before but I have never had any professional training on BF - this is through 5 years of medical school, 4 years in hospital including 6 months obstetrics and 6 months paeds, and 5 years of GP.

I have now done the Unicef 3 day training (and am on local BF steering group and social marketing group) .

On the training I had a community nursery nurse (whose entire job was seeing women in the first 6 weeks) tell me that "there's nothing wrong with a bottle, we need to stop pushing BF so much" and "once they are past 2 then you are talking child abuse"

Would agree as well with trying to normalise it. When I ask young women (not mothers) how they feel about BF the immediate reaction from a huge proportion of then is to pull a "ugh" face. I did suggest having "ninja breastfeeders" going out into areas of low BF and feeding in public......

More help in SCBU as well. When I had DD I was told I could not cup feed her - "it has to be either breast or a bottle". She was only 33 weeks and couldn't latch - don't know why they felt adding nipple confusion into the equation would help.

(and breathe)

yes but that is why your solution is more likely to work aitch. noone is going to spend any money. websites are cheap and lipservice is done, but it could be so much better than posters in the pharmacy window.

No, its not just charities who provide phone support as I have just found out.

After googling "who code baby feeding" and getting nestle's babymilk page, I did a bit more poking around and ended up on Cow & Gate's website. You can ring them up for breastfeeding advice which I am sure is completely impartial [hhmmm]

What about a dedicated b/fing support website with videos? For instance, what a latch looks like, how to do the rugby hold.

Because let's face it, most women who need help, it will be in the middle of the night.

and lots of important if not essential services are provided by charities, usually gvt funded in some part.

of course they'll all be either slashed to hell or overwhelmed in the next few years.

Make all HCP's who come into contact with pregnant women and new mothers (Consultants, GP's, HV's, MW's, HCA's, everyone) go on annual breastfeeding support training. Make it part of our mandatory training, just like blood transfusion and fire lectures!

Stop "promoting" breastfeeding and change the way HCP's talk about it. Ban the phrase "Breast is Best" and make HCP's talk about the risks of formula instead. (which means of course they have to be trained about and understand the real differences between the two)

Make is assumed that all women will be breastfeeding; stop asking pregnant women how they plan to feed their baby, implement good birthing practices (stop the over-use of instrumental deliveries, stirrups, syntocin etc) make skin-to-skin and biological nurturing part of policies and procedures and stop giving away ready made formula on postnatal wards. If women have to formula feed (because of medication etc) then give it out free, but those who actively choose not to breastfeed should have to bring their own formula and bottles into hospital with them. (I know women who bottle fed because they didn't want to "bother" the staff by asking how to breastfeed and it was easier to just ask for, or take, a bottle of ready made.....)

Training, training, Training and more TRAINING for HCP's. The depth of ignorance is stunning and embarrassing, and our breastfeeding rates won't change until the staff who allegedly "help" new mums know how to do it properly.

it exists, actually, but you have to know to google 'dr jack newman', he's got loads of clips up there demonstrating when a baby is nibbling or gulping, totally useful.

so yes, absolutely, ilove, that's a great idea. and like fishie says, cheap as chips.

WUGYouLETMeBiteYourNeck - love your Ninja breastfeeders! I've been just waiting for an opportunity to organise a breast feeding flash mob with all my bfing buddies, to descend on some disapproving venue/ person

a lady at my local bfing group had a few issues and wasnt getting any help from the midwife running the group, i couldnt help her with her specific problem but i directed her to 3 websites, MN, kellymom and dr jack newman. it makes me sooo cross that standing in a maternity unit beside a midwife, I was directing a bfing mother to the internet.

TRAINING as loud as you like, its the crux of the matter.

"the depth of ignorance is stunning and embarassing"

couldnt agree more

www.breastfeeding.nhs.uk/ so they already have a line, staffed by local vols. i#m not sure whether it's just directing people to the nct and lll lines or not. this wasn't around when dd2 was born, it's a start.

oh, it's operated by the abm and the bfing network.

Women will be more likely to trust a detailed BF website that's got a big NHS or other logo on it than anything that seems like it comes from people keen (g*d forbid eh?!) on BF. So many people are happy to spread around the idea of those evil BF nazis that anything that isn't seen as mainstream can just put people off. I know when I was a new mum I wanted information for normal mums like me, not to have to go to some kind of 'BF organisation' - I thought anything coming from somewhere like that would be biased. Now I know better and would trust the factual information on a BF organisation's or similar page more than a basic NHS one, but that's with the benefit of hindsight only...

Really detailed, accurate information on common breastfeeding problems a GP might see surely ought to be here too, to help give them an up to date evidence-based resource on them:

www.cks.nhs.uk/home

As it is, try searching that site for 'mastitis' - nothing at all.

www.cks.nhs.uk/search?&page=1&q=mastitis&site=1

There are patient information leaflets, but why doesn't it qualify for a clinical knowledge topic? It must show up so often, and it's a classic thing where you hear people being told they've got to stop feeding while they've got it.

Eyes, I think it's more a case that women might mistakenly feel like they're not entitled to use the NCT helpline, for example, because they're not members. So they might feel more comfortable approaching the NHS because that's the agency they have been in contact with during pregnancy and birth.

Probably repeating a lot of the points, but my two-penneth worth...

Acknowledge that there is a huge knowledge gap as the knowledge about how BF happens has been eroded (in our family my Gran FF, my Mum FF and I after two hideous times of attempting to BF have FF). There is information out there, but in the absence of the family for passing on information and support HCPs are now the first port of call for support and information.

Can the MWs and the HVs please be properly trained and informed in order to support their charges, both mother and child, properly. This particularly pertains to hosp MWs the first HCP we are likely to encounter with reference to BF-ing

Infant feeding counsellor (next layer of specialist support roles) will still be needed, but can they be on the beat and not permanently 'in meetings'?

Can Tiktok please be given a seat on a steering group as she helped me and I'm sure countless others both directly and indirectly to cope with difficulties with BF-ing and any subsequent difficult choices that we may have had to make.

Agree with wider sociological points of normalisation of BF-ing and perceptions of female anatomy.

At root I am cross that the NHS has carried on with the sloganeering with out the whit to ensure that the process is properly supported. If they are going to talk the talk, then they need to walk the walk. I have had some wonderful, non-judgemental support and equally been told some palpable nonsense. Did I complain about the latter? No I was too knackered with the BF-ing going badly.

Just had a look at the NHS sight, and apart from it making me feel physically sick at the memory of trying to b'feed (not b'feeding itself, you understand, but how horrible it was for me!) I noticed that there isn't anywhere on the site (unless I'm missing something) talking about problems like sore nipples, pain when feeding etc. It annoys me when people have the attitude that these things should't be mentioned, for fear of putting people off. When i asked my nhs antenatal teacher what to do if there were any problems with b'feeding she just told me I had a negative attitude .

I wish when they use photos to show a good latch they would use a newborn baby, none of the photos bear any resemblance to my wriggly, wobbly headed,screamy, scratchy fingered dd's.

Just had a look at the NHS sight, and apart from it making me feel physically sick at the memory of trying to b'feed (not b'feeding itself, you understand, but how horrible it was for me!) I noticed that there isn't anywhere on the site (unless I'm missing something) talking about problems like sore nipples, pain when feeding etc. It annoys me when people have the attitude that these things should't be mentioned, for fear of putting people off. When i asked my nhs antenatal teacher what to do if there were any problems with b'feeding she just told me I had a negative attitude .

I wish when they use photos to show a good latch they would use a newborn baby, none of the photos bear any resemblance to my wriggly, wobbly headed,screamy, scratchy fingered dd's.

Beveridge, in my case it would definitely have been that I would have seen, at first, some of the more expert information sources (especially American, especially anything that talked about 'lactation' or 'nursing') as being information from people with an axe to grind - something for people who were ideological about breastfeeding. Whereas I was just a normal person who was just doing it, but wastn't, you know, obsessed .

It was only later I realised that most of those obsessed breastfeeders were normal mums like me who just knew more about it . And now I too recommend excellent detailed websites with videos on that I'm pretty sure friends who are new mums put bottom on their list of places to go, for only after they've used the normal trustworthy sources of information - you know, their midwife, health visitor, mum, and so on!

I think it's all part of the normalisation of breastfeeding - to put detailed, not patronising and fluffy, technical information about breastfeeding into boringly mainstream NHS resources that are new parents' first ports of call.

It's one thing having a 'lite' description of impetigo or tonsillitis in patient information leaflets, when you know that the GP knows all the detailed medical stuff and will be being encouraged to keep up to date. It's another thing only having the 'lite' descriptions, which is what we've got with breastfeeding, when we can't trust that our GP or other health professional will have the detailed up to date information to fill in the gaps.

Health visitors, health visitors, health visitors. Many seem wildly ill informed about bf. Train 'em and makes sure there is enough of 'em.