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Your thoughts on breastfeeding policy and what could be done to improve it/ increase breastfeeding rates

325 replies

JustScreamMumsnet · 29/10/2009 11:10

Hello Mumsnetters, we've managed to get a meeting with the person running the Government's breastfeeding initiative and would like to pass on Mumsnet's top suggestions for improving breastfeeding policy and to outline the key issues.

So let rip! But do bear in mind that there's probably bugger all in the pot, so, much as we'd all love to have a one to one breastfeeding counsellor for the first 48 hours for all type thing - that's probably not a realistic suggestion at this point.

OP posts:
BEWiTcHEDnod · 29/10/2009 14:27

In the run up to DS's birth (he's now 6 months old and I'm still breastfeeding) I was told in my antenatal classes that breastfeeding would only hurt if I was doing it wrong. I was given the impression that as long as I had a good latch everything would be fine, and that as long as I didn't have pethadine in childbirth this shouldn't be a problem

What I wasn't prepared for was the fact that breastfeeding DOES hurt for the first few weeks... but that it DOES get better. I also wasn't told about nipple thrush which, had I not been incredibly determined, would have scuppered my breastfeeding career early on as I suffered with it for the first 7 weeks or so.

My GP didn't have a clue how to treat nipple thrush, didn't diagnose it for me (said it was a bacterial infection and suggested antibiotics ) - it was self-diagnosis through searching online and paying to see a private lactation consultant in order to get the support/information I needed that allowed me to beat it. I had to see my GP five times before he would give me the fluconazole necessary to get rid of the nipple thrush. I wonder how many mothers suffer from undiagnosed nipple thrush and give up breastfeeding because its just too painful?

This is a long-winded way of saying that

a) the antenatal classes are not honest enough about the fact that it DOES hurt a lot of women but it DOES get better. They also don't prepare you to look out for signs of mastitis/nipple thrush etc etc.

b) the frontline healthcare professionals who are supposed to support mothers and babies after they have been discharged from the midwives don't know enough about breastfeeding/ailments connected with breastfeeding.

chosenone · 29/10/2009 14:31

More training and support from ante natal and post natal team, including honesty about length of time demand feeding takes and the fact that it can be regimented, needs to be said again and again in early weeks. Support getting the right, comfortable latch etc.

BUT for me the real problem seems to be out there, in the villages, towns and cities. Most mums I know who've given up in the early weeks have said things like; 'It just isn't practical to feed him/her when Im out and about' 'I can't keep whipping my boobs out everywhere'. One main things is comfortable feeding rooms if mums don't want to feed in public, its all well and goos saying they should but if they don't want to there should be area in shopping centre's (like they have in trafford centre) I complained to my local council about this and there comments were basically that they would look into it!

How do we change a society that is still embarassed by breastfeeding? More on TV, more in shops and cafes around us?

TAFKAtheUrbanDryad · 29/10/2009 14:36

I think there's a bigger issue here - the fact that women are still objectified in popular culture and that it seems to be ok to see a woman's breasts in Nuts/FHM/Page 3 etc but not when they're used for their proper purpose: feeding an infant. So we need to change our whole view of women, our whole view of ourselves - and that's no small task.

Breasts = sex is so engendered in our brains and our culture that it's often seen as repulsive to use our breasts for something to do with children. I got called a paedophile for nursing my ds who was then 2 and it's attitudes like that which need to change!

Fruitbatlings · 29/10/2009 14:37

TAFKA!

AitchTwoToTangOh · 29/10/2009 14:42

yep, niknak, let's face it by and large it is a middle class thing, bfing (stress by and large so no lynching please), why try to persuade eveyrone to do it, just concentrate on the bourgeois pigs and we'll get out there and make it aspirational within the decade.

claraquack · 29/10/2009 14:43

There is some great stuff on this board.

BUT.

Aren't you preaching to the converted (I know that's not quite right but you know what I mean!).

Presumably most people who have replied breastfed, or wanted to breastfeed or think they will/would breastfeed. Shouldn't you be asking people who didn't breastfeed WHY they didn't.

For me one of the best comments here is the one about trying to change attitudes towards breasts. I was shocked and depressed when I heard that the daughter of a colleague of mine wasn't going to breastfeed because it was "disgusting". Personally I don't think getting more people to breastfeed starts when the mother is pregnant or when the baby is born, it starts at school. If you grow up thinking that breastfeeding your baby is normal (as I did, my mother breastfed all of us and I assumed - obviously naively - that that is what everyone did at the beginning!), then you will probably at least try to breastfeed.

And please do mention that is it better to know breastfeeding is likely to be painful at the beginning but does get easier. I don't agree that if you are doing it right it won't hurt. Or if that is true then whether you get it right at the beginning is pot luck as they might be able to train you but you try and train a three hour old baby what to do!

ScaryLoujalou · 29/10/2009 14:51

I feel embarrassed to admit to people how long I BF my son. I think its the culture of this country that makes me feel like that when I was happy to bf and would feed him in public frequently.

RenderedSpeechless · 29/10/2009 14:51

i agree with the comments about support and access to professional advisors. my experience was that i understood that bf may be painful and that help was 'out there' but accessing it seemed to be presented in a way that somehow implied that i was 'deficient' or lacking and in need of specialist attention.

mw: "we're going to have to get a counsellor in to see you"

me: "i dont need counselling, i just want to be able to feed my baby"

mw: "to do that you'll need to see a counsellor"

me: left thinking that mw assess me to be pnd and in denial about / not recognising it.

i put this down to the advice being so limited and if it is consistent and not as restricted as it is in my area that would be a significant step in normalising bf and surrounding issues. the counsellor i saw was fantastic, but for me, the discourse of 'counselling' and 'specialism' did nothing for my esteem or as a first approach to addressing the latching problems i had.

i have to say that 'one feed at a time' was such a powerful mantra for me. it hurt for me to feed - really, really hurt. to think in week one that i had another 25 weeks ahead of me would have prompted me to quit very early on. just knowing that each feed was 'giving bf another try' didnt alter the reality, but represented light at the end of a tunnel for each feed. i was at least able to focus on one feed at a time, which is why ive been lessed stressed out this time - i am so grateful for those wise words from a bf telehpone support group.

claraquack · 29/10/2009 14:54

Oh another thought, free wine for every mother to help her through the first few weeks?

I really did find a glass of red wine dulled the pain slightly!

BEWiTcHEDnod · 29/10/2009 14:56

RenderedSpeechless - totally agree with you about the 'one feed at a time' mantra - that helped me through it as well...

we put so much pressure on ourselves as new mothers and feel so damn guilty about everything. what is needed is not more pressure (to bf) but more support (to allow bf to continue).

AitchTwoToTangOh · 29/10/2009 15:02

we need to preach to the converted, it's the only sensible use of limited resources. and alcohol can inhibit let-down in some women... it's a minefield.

Booooooooooyhoo · 29/10/2009 15:06

direct all intended breastfeeders to MN.

not joking.

best support i have received in 5 months of bfeeding. i know for a fact i wouldnt be still doing it without MN.

very little RL support and accurate info.

ijustwant8hours · 29/10/2009 15:10

SMP for 12 months so long as the mother is breastfeeding. (Runs and hides....)

Not seriously suggesting this, but it would get the rates up.

More acceptably:

  • ban advertising of follow on milk

  • ditch breast is best slogan

  • Train GPs who do 6 week check

  • target those mothering magazines to write pro articles.

  • Amoung my peers the thing that damaged most peoples breastfeeding was being told that supply is low in the evening and so topping up will help with evening fussiness. I think it says this in a popular babycare book..... so some kind of campaign against this...
claraquack · 29/10/2009 15:16

surely the point is to get more people to breastfeed at the start - eg the most important bit - not to get fewer people to breastfeed for longer?

or am I on the wrong website?

Booooooooooyhoo · 29/10/2009 15:28

clara, i cant quite remember who posted teh fact but something like 75% of mothers intend to breastfeed. thats pretty good going, if all those that intend to bf had great support at the start and throughout it would mean that pretty close to that figure might stil be bfing until 6 months. however because the support is deficient, it means women give up a LOT earlier.

it would also have a knock on effect. if those who intend to bf were well supported, it would be the best advertisement for bfing, but unfortunately when people arent supported, and give up they will talk about it to others and perhaps influence their decision of whether or not to bf.

Fruitbatlings · 29/10/2009 15:34

But ijustwant8hours, what about those with Tubular Hypoplastic breasts? Would we still get 12 months SMP?
It's not through choice we can't bf.

Perhaps if we were prescribed domperidone, we might be able to mix feed for 12 months.......

elkiedee · 29/10/2009 15:36

Clara, it depends on what you mean by "the start" - the majority of women who do start bf give up according to their answers in surveys etc sooner than they wanted to because of poor support.

LeninGhoul · 29/10/2009 15:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ijustwant8hours · 29/10/2009 15:40

Fruitbatlings - it wasn't a serious suggestion, clearly it would not be fair.

Fruitbatlings · 29/10/2009 15:42

I know Would be nice though! It'd be fair if those in my position could still benefit

ChutesTooNarrow · 29/10/2009 15:51

I'm muddling along breastfeeding my 6 week old. We had a horrendous start, I would scream with pain through feeds, I felt detached from my son, wasn't bonding and refused to feed him by the end of the first week. He ended up half formula/half boob fed for a week until I realised I did want him entirely breast feed and worked really bloody hard to achieve this.

What would have helped? I don't think the extremely pro bf hospital and midwives could have done more. There was a bf support group in the hospital and trained staff on hand. Every mw specifically asked how bf was, if I needed help. I was visited by a bfc to check I was happy with bf and time was spent talking me through positions. At the colostrum stage we seemed to be doing ok and were discharged less than 24hours after birth.

Where I needed the help was day three onwards, at home. I was so ill when my milk came in, slightly delirious and shivering under a mountain of blankets. Bf went downhill from then on with most feeds feeling like broken glass being dragged through my breasts and much tears from both me and the baby. The mass of support that I hadn't really needed at the start had gone at the point when I needed it most. I strongly feel more help needs to be given a few days after birth in a familiar and safe place (e.g home). Telling me I could take myself and my newborn back to the support group at the hospital was no good when I was refusing to get out of bed, let alone leave the house.

My hospital did have a policy of staying until bf was established but, as already mentioned, hospitals are fairly grim places. I slept on bedsheets completely saturated with my blood that a HCA declined to change on the grounds she was far too busy. There was no chance I was staying a second longer than necessary so I said whatever they needed to hear to get discharged.

Other help: I think we need to stop seeing bf as something only for the mum to concern herself with. Educating the support she has - partner/family -is just as important. There was no information for my partner, when it went wrong he spent hours educating himself on the MN bf boards and kellymom and this was invaluable in supporting me. We were lucky that we could afford for him to take three weeks paternity leave and we had this time for both of us to work on bf. Again the value of paternity leave shouldn't be underestimated and it really is disgraceful to only offer a few days paid leave.

More realistic preparation is essential, I could have done with the knowledge that childbirth isn't the handing back of your body if you bf. It wouldn't have put me off, just made it easier to deal with. Acknowledgement that is does hurt, is uncomfortable but does get better with perseverance, we should be telling all new mums and their partners to allow at least 6 weeks to get it established.

Finally, I know HVs get a drumming on MN but I'm fairly sure mine is single handedly responsible for putting an end to bf for many women in my area. She presented herself as the complete antithesis of the hospital and mws. She was very dismissive of the mws, told me not to let them bully me into bf. My baby lost weight (as expected!) and she suggested a bottle top up. I told her bf was grim but she did no more than wince at my cracked, bleeding nipples and give me a leaflet on safe bottle sterilizing. Advised me that really bf was only needed for 6 weeks. No wonder my boy was on formula a day later.TRAINING, training, training is needed, or take away their involvement in feeding. If an HV can visit every mum a few days after birth why can't a trained feeding expert also?

I had a real want to bf my child and the determination to do so. We have done it alone though and its been hard. Perhaps we should be targeting the women that do want to bf instead of the refuseniks, as the want alone is not always enough to succeed.

daisyj · 29/10/2009 16:23

hanaflower - maybe in my post-natal blur, struggling as I was, it just felt as though the message was that it was all lovely and easy, but it could well be that I would have taken anything badly at that point!

AitchTwoToTangOh · 29/10/2009 16:24

excellent post, chutes, and well done for getting this far.

SkivingViking · 29/10/2009 16:40

Just to respond to someone who mentioned Scandinavia.

We've just moved to the UK from Scandinavia and I had both my children there.

One thing which did seem to help support-wise, is that when a woman has a baby, she is put into a 'mother's group' (if you really don't want to, then you can say so!), where she is 'matched' up with about 4 or 5 other mums who have had babies at around the same time (and they match up twin mums, second-time mums, first-time mums etc). The first few visits may or may not be with the HV, but generally, it's up to the group how often they want to meet and it gives a chance to sit and have a coffee, talk about issues, problems etc.

BF was discussed at both my mother's groups and we were able to support each other and encourage each other where necessary. (Just to add, one mum in my first group was FF as she couldn't get BF going and it didn't make any difference to the group, ie, she told her story and talked about her problems and didn't feel stigmatised or guilty about FF and we were still able to support each other).

Maybe something similar to this would help and be relatively cheap (it's just the initial organising and after that is up to the group)?

I can say from experience that I found these groups invaluable.

SkivingViking · 29/10/2009 16:44

(I'm not sure if what I said about one of the mums FF sounded a bit patronising - it wasn't meant to, sorry if it did. It's actually quite to work out how to type posts actually (ie, when you can't see people's faces and their responses and reactions) plus I am simultaneously having conversations with both dd and ds - I just wanted to mention the FF mum as an example that these groups aren't meant to be exclusive one way or another - if that makes sense?)