Your thoughts on breastfeeding policy and what could be done to improve it/ increase breastfeeding rates

[JustScreamMumsnet]

Hello Mumsnetters, we've managed to get a meeting with the person running the Government's breastfeeding initiative and would like to pass on Mumsnet's top suggestions for improving breastfeeding policy and to outline the key issues.

So let rip! But do bear in mind that there's probably bugger all in the pot, so, much as we'd all love to have a one to one breastfeeding counsellor for the first 48 hours for all type thing - that's probably not a realistic suggestion at this point.

Interesting, I wasn't aware that complacency about infant weight gain was one of the central tenets of Nazism.

Because she was horrid to anyone who wanted to give baby one bottle a day to ease the strain and although was very pro BFing didn't really provide much support. I was lucky I had an amazing BF counsellor in the hospital who got me started, it was not due to the support I got after that.

BTW apart from a few bottle my son was BF until he was 13 1/2 months and he was premature. Am very pro BFing but think that not everyone feels so comfortable with it and health professionals should stop looking with blinkers on and try and help people continue even if its not exclusively.

I completely understand your point, and agree with it, just think that using words like Nazi doesn't really help the argument.

Well, firstly, I'm invoking Godwin's Law on scarylou.

Then I'm going to say that breastfeeding in public in England, Wales, and N.Ireland is legal - but so is harassing a breastfeeding mother. So I would make it illegal to stop a nursing mother in public, and provide proper breastfeeding rooms for people who don't feel like they want to, or when their kids are at that easily distractible age where they bob on and off.

Then I would stop with the "breast is best" shit - it's counter productive and sends entirely the wrong message. The right message to send would be "breast is normal", and the best way to do this would be to stop advertising formula entirely.

I'd also make it law that anyone who says "bitty" to a nursing mother faces a fine of up to £10,000 and a 10 year jail sentence.

Sorry about language - just really meant that she had blinkers on and needed to be a bit more flexible as people were put off to go to her for advice. Not the best thing for a HV I think.

Further to Tombliboobs - make check for tongue tie part of the tests immediately after birth along with the AGPAR scoring.

I don't think that low breastfeeding rates are necessarily down to a lack of support for those who want to bf (though of course part of the Gov policy should be to ensure that there is high quality support available). Low breastfeeding rates are not a problem that the NHS alone can address.

I think (as someone has already said) the issue is that in many areas breastfeeding is not seen as culturally acceptable. Mums don't have role models of other breastfeeding mums, there isn't a history of breastfeeding. Bottle feeding is very much seen as the norm within our communities, breastfeeding is seen as something unusual, something that Mums need to be congratulated for doing.

Breastfeeding needs to be seen as the cultural norm, we should see people on TV etc breastfeeding. When breastfeeding is talked about (evne on here) it tends to be talked about in terms of the problems women have and how much support is needed for breastfeeding Mums. In my own personal experience breastfeeding has been the most natural thing in the world, I haven't needed any support to do it (I'd have needed more support to formula feed!)

We need to talk about breastfeeding in positive terms - its free, its quick, its easy and its best for baby.

It needs to be seen as normal, for some strange reason it is normal to give a baby milk that has been messed around with and its from another animal ffs.

Stop all advertising for formula, anyine who wants it knows where to get it.

"its free, its quick, its easy and its best for baby."

IME it is not quick, not easy, and in some circumstances it is not best for baby

If you had adequate support and found it to be quick and easy you are exceptionally lucky

Celebrities who BF should promote it more as we do seem to live in a celebrity loving society so if its promoted by them people may see it as more acceptable. Roxy in Eastenders did pump milk for her premmie baby but breastfeeding was never mentioned after that.

Also with all the risk of swine flu at the moment it should be promoted as a way to help boost babies immune symptom.

Systems even!

it was none of those things for me, la, i think you've been very lucky.
and tbh the only way it will become a cultural norm again (rather than a biological one) is when women are out there doing it, which will require them feeding longer than the few weeks most women achieve.

Avril - but the majority of women DO find it quick easy and best for baby - I wasn't exceptionally lucky - you were unlucky.

Avril, you'd be very hard pushed to suggest that breastmilk isn't best for babies. In your case, it sounds like it was the 'poorly managed breastfeeding support' that was the thing that was bad for your baby?

scary it was mentioned. she went to a baby and mum group and all the middle class mums looked down on her for bringing out a bottle, apparently. or so she told roxy, absolutely apropos of nothing.

lal, Clearly the majority of women don't actually find it easy, since they don't end up doing it.

lal123, you are absolutely off your rocker if you think that the majority of women find bfing quick and easy etc. if they did, they'd be bfing. the vast majority initiate bfing, why aren't they still doing it at six weeks if it's such a piece of piss?

"I'd also make it law that anyone who says "bitty" to a nursing mother faces a fine of up to £10,000 and a 10 year jail sentence."

TAFKA, yes, exactly! How I hate that pair of shites for giving morons the perfect stick to beat nursing mothers with

Vulpus - Yes, of course. But there are cases where breastfeeding just does not work for a mother and baby. I don't think that HCPs should be prevented from suggesting formula. Though obviously in my case, actual help with latch, expressing colostrum etc, would have been even better.

Lal - why do you think our mothers and grandmothers switched en masse from this magically quick and easy solution to expensive inconvenient formula then? A fashion statement The majority of mothers I know did not find it either easy or quick.

I think there are 2 main themes to this. Firstly, the promotion of breastfeeding in general - we want to make it 'aspirational', something to show off about, really. From age 13 minimum girls and boys need to be exposed to the idea that their role models breastfeed and support breastfeeding. Popstars, footballers wives, politicians, royalty, teachers, girls guide leaders, fictional characters in soaps, you name it, they should be encouraged to promote it. Trouble is that will take a long time, because I think you need to be exposed to the idea for a few years before you get pregnant for it to really have 'taken root'.

The second thing is support within the first 7 days. And I know this costs money but really if you want to encourage it it is crucial. I was really motivated to breastfeed, my husband and both of our families were really supportive, I had been to breastfeeding cafes about 6 times before I gave birth, I fed DS as soon as I could (about 2 hours after birth) but after that he fed about twice in 36 hours. He would get frantic and not latch on. For the first 2 weeks I spent about 1 hour at each feed getting him to latch on, then fed for about an hour, then got about 30 mins to 1hrs rest and then started all over again. If it hadn't been for my wonderful midwife team who were available on their mobiles all the time, and visited at least 10 times in the first 14 days, I don't think I would have made it. But after 2 weeks we needed much less support, which I was able to access at the breastfeeding cafe, and here I am 1 year on still feeding.

I am a bit nervous about the 'not let you out of hospital until someone has checked that you are happy with feeding' - this is a great idea but really the post natal ward I was on was so grim I was desparate to get home. And I had fed him - but I knew breastfeeding wasn't 'established' - I think that took about 4 weeks.

I have recently had my third baby and am so grateful that i was bolshy enough to withstand the following. i only developed this tough exterior because i was pressured into formula-feeding my son 2 years ago and this was my way of forgiving myself and displacing the guilt i felt.

i was told that the ante-natal breastfeeding was for new mums, meaning first-time mums only. i explained the difficulties in feeding my second child, but due to numbers i was not allowed. in spite of the popularity of these classes, there are not enough places to meet the demand. i only got to attend because i turned up on the day and added myself to the self-registration list.

secondly, i had my baby by cs. mw advised that would be too much of a strain to solely bf. baby was in scbu for two days and used to support mw advise of ff. mw made me feel like i was being difficult and unrealistic, citing that other mums in the ward were ff. the eye-rolling and overly-audible exhaling put pressure on me and baby fed by cup for 3 days. mw also suggested would be unfair on my other dcs to devote so much time to newborn and bfing.

baby did not regain birth weight until week 2 and i resisted the pressure to switch to ff. the mw and hv tried to enforce daily visits, which i refused. ff was being presented as 'normal' and the modern choice.

i could go on and on, but wont (for now), but just to add this - why are so many bf provisions in shops etc coupled or located in toilets? sends very clear and poor message about bf perceptions. i wont use such provisions and will bf literally anywhere - even the tube, as i did on tuesday.

Avril, yes - this is another problem isn't it: poor training also means HCPs leave babies dehydrated and at risk, by NOT knowing when they need to supplement to help them to feed etc..

The whole lack of proper training stinks and has to be the main priority.

Because like I said bfeeding is seen as something abnormal, not socially acceptable etc etc. If breastfeeding is so difficult how come other countries have such high breastfeeding rates? How come in some areas breastfeeding rates at 4-6 weeks are around 70% and in others its only 14%? Perhaps the Gov should be looking at areas where breastfeeding rates are high and learn something from them?

As I said - I DO think that high quality support is needed for women to establish breastfeeding, but constantly going on about how difficult it is doesn't exactly persuade women to do it does it???

renderedspeechless, I do hope you have complained about the awful treatment you have had. What nonsense they spout about CS and second babies. Makes me fucking furious.

Interesting question re why women switched to formula - I suppose at the time formula was being advertised as being better for babies, an opportunity for women to pass on some of the responsibility for feeding to someone else, etc etc. I don't think they all switched because they found breastfeeding too difficult - in fact introduction of formula would have meant that women didn't even attempt to start breastfeeding.