Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Site stuff

Join our Innovation Panel to try new features early and help make Mumsnet better.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Daily Mail - The On Mumsnet This Week Column - part 374, appendix 5

601 replies

JustineMumsnet · 06/09/2009 12:20

Goodday Mumsnetters,
Now I know we said we'd abide by the results of the poll and the poll's not quite due to close yet, so first off we hope you'll forgive us for bringing this matter to an early conclusion.

We've thought about this a bit more (thanks to everyone for their considered input - it's been generally helpful to us though not always fun) and we've decided to ask the DM not to run this column under any circumstances.

We've said all along that we were torn by the column. When push came to shove we thought, on balance, we would prefer though it to exist rather than not, assuming we had editorial control (explanation why later on). But NOT if the majority of Mumsnetters were strongly against it running.

I don't think the poll shows that the majority of MN is actually against it, as it happens - I know there's some debate here - I think it shows 43% are. But I think the whole process has shown that those who are against are very very strongly against whilst those who don't mind the column in one form or another don't feel particularly strongly about it (save perhaps Daftpunk ). The 43% odd would never be happy with the column running and I think that therefore it would cause ongoing acrimony, which is of course not what we're about.

What we are about is making parents' lives easier and we don't exclude DM readers from that. MN is open to all.

However, a weekly column could and has been interpreted as a brand alignment - and it's not really as some have pointed out the right fit for us - which is why we wouldn't have sought it in the first instance.

For anyone who's been upset by/ caught in the crossfire of this debate - MP in particular and indeed, Leah Hardy - I apologise. A Mumsnetter has just written to me to say the following (she agreed that I could quote her here):

"I feel the flames of crises are fuelled by MNHQ's over willingness to collaborate. Offering Mumsnetters an opportunity to help steer, but knowing they all want to go in different directions is always going
to be carnage. They can never be of one voice. That's what makes Mumsnet interesting and wonderful, isn't it?"

I think on reflection this is spot on - we have always tried to be as inclusive as possible here at MNHQ. Our answer to most dilemmas is usually "Let's see what the Mnetters think". But on polarising issues like this one this is perhaps a mistake. It all becomes a bit too Lord of the Fliesish, and innocent folk get caught in the crossfire.

A final thought about the nature of MN and how we go about making it viable. Much bigger beasts than us are trying to work out how they can make their websites work in terms of paying the bills. Many are mooting charging in some way for access. Mumsnet is free and we probably turn down as much advertising as we take. We do our best to operate as ethically and communally as possible but we have costs that are rising as we grow - servers, people, offices etc - and it's a balancing act.

Mumsnet is big and successful in many ways but it does not generate huge amounts of revenue and profit. We don't have and can't afford a big PR machine - it's me!

But we want to do tonnes of things - run campaigns like our miscarriage one that could benefit lots of folk, improve the site with new features, spread the word so more can have access to the good advice available here. To do that we need to get out there a bit and we need to generate some revenue.

Being in the Daily Mail every week was obviously one way of getting out there - but not perhaps, as many of you have argued, the right way.

So we'll ask them to stop and keep you posted.

Have a lovely rest of weekend.

MNHQ

OP posts:
RedAction · 09/09/2009 10:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

morningpaper · 09/09/2009 10:23

When I couldn't work out who the quotes belonged to for the Mumsnet books, I put "Stephanie1974"

factoid

Redworm · 09/09/2009 10:26

I've just tried to get that name but its taken. did you book it yourself to prevent complications?

morningpaper · 09/09/2009 10:27

I can't remember!

Pielight · 09/09/2009 10:59

Oh PW congratulations! I wish we had some flagging system so I could listen in. One day I dream of Stephan from Northampton sharing his views over the airways only to be contradicted by Stephanie from Northampton

You SEE. All this you must be careful on the internet, it's public, you must cover your back, change your name malarky. So then you name change, and all that happens is everyone says WHO ARE YOU? for two weeks. So then you have to tell them, otherwise you feel like a weirdo, and then that's your privacy all dashed away.

Don't get it.

I think I might need some help on internet etiquette.

Redworm · 09/09/2009 11:03

I'm reallt sad about all the recent namechanges. Because we aren't corporeal here, the name is like a body, and talking to a different name is really disconcertingly like talking to a different person. It has really eroded the sense of community for me.

Pielight · 09/09/2009 11:08

Agree. But also don't know what we do about it.

Boco · 09/09/2009 11:16

I find it very hard to name change because it does feel like I'm wearing a silly costume. For me, if I'm going to be totally anonymous every time I post then I don't think I could be bothered to post at all, because it's about the connections you make with real people who you recognise and who recognise you. Will certainly do less of the wanton over sharing though.

Redworm · 09/09/2009 11:18

If we can't do wanton oversharing here there is no point in the place. I spend all my fucking life hanging back from people and being circumspect. I was so moved when I found this place precisely because that shit can go to one side. But perhaps it can't.

justabouteatingchocolate · 09/09/2009 11:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Redworm · 09/09/2009 11:25

I wish moldies hadn't had the problems and moral failures that beset it. Because in principle it is exactly what I want and need. An intimate community of friends, unhindered by all the constraints on intimacy that real life friendship brings, and unhindered by the thought of the whole world with its sharp chin on your shoulder, peering at you.

Pielight · 09/09/2009 11:27

I think like Boco says it messes up the point of MN, which is the knowing people and talking to them and getting on with them. That's the nicest bit for me. Then within that context wanton over-sharing is nice with people you 'know' as well as those you really don't know. Was a good combination.

I don't really get the point of it without that, it would then just be using MN to get a tip on how to get an 8 y-o to eat broccoli, which is fine but tediously limited interest.

Perhaps you just have to decide whether you are happy to be all or nothing on t'internet?

Boco · 09/09/2009 11:28

I guess you pick the level of sharing you're comfortable with. Now when I post something I have to think 'would I be happy with my friend up the road / mil / sister reading this?' if not, don't post it. But that's partly because my name is in the mn book as I did the illustrations and there's a real possibility that people I know will have a look. Before that I posted v. wantonly and without thinking too much about it.

justabouteatingchocolate · 09/09/2009 11:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Redworm · 09/09/2009 11:49

That is a tough test, justa!

The trouble is I feel mortally oversensitive about almost everything I say everywhere. Being on MN is more or less the very first time in my life I have felt able to be open and close to people. But I feel really emarassed about posting here just the fact of posting here and feel cold all over about any of my posts becoming known to any of my real life acquaintences -- and almost equally awful about them appearing under my talkname in the press. Not rational, but what has rationality to do with it anyway.

justabouteatingchocolate · 09/09/2009 11:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

RedAction · 09/09/2009 12:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Boco · 09/09/2009 12:07

Redworm I think that's a very understandable way of feeling about it all. I know exactly what you mean. Maybe then the closed chat sections mn are talking about will really work, and knowing that there's a bit where you can talk without that worry that rl people are reading will be a good thing.

ZephirineDrouhin · 09/09/2009 12:36

Closed sections sound like a very good idea to me too. Redworm makes very good points.

Damn twitter. Got stupidly engrossed in it last night and missed offer of a day's work by ignoring my mobile. The internet is sucking the lifeblood out of me. Had fitful sleep last night dreaming that mumsnet was a ruined town. I wandered through it sucking fisherman's friends out of a white packet with blue stripes. What can it all mean?

(V heartily recommend following Dr Samuel Johnson, Tim Key and David Schneider on twitter though.)

morningpaper · 09/09/2009 12:40

the internet is the devil's work

we need to STOP IT

(I dreamt I was a prostitute having a lesbian affair with another prostitute. My dreams are non-stop filth. Why can't I have normal Mumsnet-ghost-town-Michael-Parkinson dreams?)

Redworm · 09/09/2009 12:56

I am enjoying all these dreams. I'm struck by the reversal of sucking images between your conscious and unconscious mind ZD. The internet sucking the life from you and you sucking at (fisherman) friendship in a ruined internet community. Fisherman, fishing net, internet. I love the detail of the white packet with blue stripes.

My dog is barking at a buttefly he has just murdered. Yesterday an escaped brown-and-white rabbit ran across my path in a church cemetery. Both of those would make wonderful dreams but in fact they were just real life.

morningpaper · 09/09/2009 12:58

oh but Mumsnet is white with blue stripes!

redfacedandrude · 09/09/2009 13:01

Did I tell you MP that in my dream where you were my probation office and kept breaking into song we were also having torrid SEX?

Redworm · 09/09/2009 13:01

There we have it then.

redfacedandrude · 09/09/2009 13:03

[only joking]

Liking idea of closed chat sections, asked for it ages ago. Might it really happen?