Post your thoughts/ideas/musings on global poverty and climate change for Policywonk - Mumsnet's blogger at the G20 summit...

[JustineMumsnet]

Ok so hurrah, Policywonk is to be our Mumsnet representative inside the London Summit as part of G20Voice initiative - a group of 50 bloggers connecting the rest of the world with the G20 world leaders.

There is more information about the project at here but in short G20Voice has been organised by a coalition of non-profit organisations Oxfam GB, Comic Relief, and Save the Children with the support of the Blue State Digital and the UK Government. They have convinced the UK Govt to allow 50 bloggers into the summit with equal access to the mainstream media.

It's a 3 day programme starting April 1st the day before the summit and ending the day after. Day one will be about providing the bloggers with information and helping them get to know each other so that they can understand the issues they and their readers care about. It will be fairly unstructured along Barcamp/Unconference lines. We want the bloggers to decide the priorities and the questions they ask the next day.

The day of the summit will consist of a stream of people from the G20 delegations. They'll be asked to speak with the bloggers either en-masse or at round table discussions. People outside the summit can join in via Skype or phone lines.

The analysis day is about feedback from the bloggers and experts from Govt and NGOs on the decisions and announcements from the Summit.

All three days will be filmed and a video and audio stream will be available.

The main themes are global poverty and climate change/the environment but as they say on the website: 'This is the plan but in reality the event belongs to the bloggers. Everyone attending will have the chance to shape the schedule themselves.'

So anyway, that's the background and here's the thread for discussing your thoughts on global poverty and climate change in particular.

I like the questions for the anti capitalists...I'd be interested to know how exactly capitalism can be dismantled (or whatever verb they use)...as in, it's clear (to me) that current system is hugely damaging and I can envisage, just about, some more localised, sustainable, just economy...but how to get from here to there?
I mean, what are the steps???

Doh! Has my spelling given me away!

Opps I mean, no, I am GLaDOS; Genetic Lifeform and Disk Operating System

Another point though that might be relevent - there is little point fighting global warming if people aren't prepared to fight for their way of life per se, meaning fighting for the presevation of liberal democracy.

The thing is, these other systems have been tried and have all lead to untold corruption, tyranny and mass slaughter. Liberal democracy is not perfect by any means, but by god we enjoy a better standard of living than has ever been achieved in history.

Maybe we have been so lucky that we forget what politics is for - that we have mortal enemies in the world who don't care if we sympathise with their aims. They want us gone basically.

I don't want to do deals with despots. I want my son to grow up in liberal democracy, in reletive stablity compared to the rest of the world. I don;t want him to be oppressed by anyone, especially anti-capitalists!

but by god we enjoy a better standard of living than has ever been achieved in history without the tyranny, I should have added

mmm but what is meant by 'standard of living'?
increased affluence has simply lead to more junk, not more happiness or health. And that affluence is bought at a huge price, which we're not paying.

What do you mean by 'junk'?

And not more health? Do you know how mush more the average life span is today than it was even 100 years ago?

There are always costs. Life is not cost free. I would rather juggle with the costs and balances of liberal democracy - which, as it happens, is not a static entity and so is not an 'ideology' - than having those costs dictaed to me for the good of..what..Oceania? No thanks.

By junk I mean things like 100 different types of washing powder...frozen mashed potato...'pentapeptides' for your hair/skin or whatever....hard to know what to pick really.
If you look at increase in life span over last 50 years rather than last 100, you see a different story. Yes, life span improved by improved sanitation, improved diet and vaccination. Once those improvements are in place (and these are the improvements that everyone is entitled to, IMO) there isn't much more gained by the increased affluence, for the majority of the population. Rather we start to kill ourselves by over eating, smoking, drinking too much and not taking enough exercise.
So, to get back to the G20, while I do value living in a democracy, I don't think capitalism is either necessary for democracy or an efficient way of acheiving well being for all. It's just chance that I'm born here, why shouldn't everyone have clean water, enough food, education, a midwife etc?

Do you really think a made up marketing ploy like pentapeptides is a threat to anyone?

Take your pick? Only if you are determined to see the worst on everything. I am on the side of people and politics any day. Never ideologies or 'anarchists'.

Great that you value living in democracy. Look at the small print in the Socialist Worker however. They are after revolutiuon not efficiancy or humanitarian reorganisation. Back to breaking eggs to make omelettes..

I do think liberal democracy is the worst government system, except for all the others (ta, Winston). I absolutely believe that there's never been a better time or place to be a woman that in developed nations in 2009 (despite the fact that we still have a long way to go to achieve true parity).

But nevertheless, something like one-third of the world's population lives in absolute poverty. Liberal democracy isn't doing much to change that.

What advanced capitalism (of the almost untrammelled sort practised in the UK and the US) and liberal democracy seem to do, in tandem, is to concentrate wealth (which is pretty much analagous to power) in ever-smaller groups of people. It also encourages levels of consumption that most people think are unsustainable.

And we have a huge moral problem, as MLE points out, in that we're enjoying all the benefits, and other people in the world are bearing most of the cost.

The worst? Than what?

Liberal democracy might eventually help poverty. Its certainly not a good idea for us to forsake our provledges (and hence our responsiblites) becasue other people suffer in the world. What kind of self hatred is that?

No no no. The worst except for all the others. It's a famous Churchill quote, you ponce

Look, if you view the world's resources as finite (and I think you have to really, given the second law of thermodynamics), then it's absolutely logical to say that in order for people in absolute poverty to have more, obscenely over-indulged people in the West are going to have to make do with a little less. It's either that or pitilessly mine the Earth until every single resource is utterly extinguished, and then hope for a seat on the last spaceship out of here.

Doh! lol

PW, don't you remember my conspiracy theory from ages ago??? It had a spaceship in it!

Nooooo, don't remember the spaceship

By the way folks (cos there are thousands of you reading this, aren't there?), I've set up an MN blog now for the G20 stuff. I'm going to put some links up on there to some of the people and sites that look interesting.

Just like to say that anyone who knew me in RL would now be ROFL at the thought of me and SW!
It is possible to critique the current state of affairs without proposing such crude solutions. That's why I'm interested in the anti capitalist stance, to see if they have an actual route map for getting out of this mess.
I don't think it's self hatred to be prepared to countenance a more modest life style. Current european consumption is only possible for everyone on the earth if we had 3 earths to live on....which we clearly don't...and I don't see what entitles us to more than our fair share.
That, plus climate change is the pressing problem.
that's all!
off to check out your blog, pw.

just seen this - good for you, wonks

Hello pointy. Ta.

Look at the blog, look at the blog... la la la

where is the blog?

(you don;t think I have read this whole thread, do you? )

In the MN blogs bit.

I wouldn't advise reading the whole thread tbh. Do let me know if you have a personal message for Barack though, as obv. I'm going to be spending a lot of time with him.

policywonk blog

someone needs to teach you to do LINKS on that blog of yours

YES PLEASE. Am total blog ingenue.

I think you'll find Barack's ass has already been, um, covered, justa.

Do you know, I don't fancy him. Should I see my GP?

nah he's too young and skinny for me

Aren't you going to tell me how to do links, MP?

I was a bit stunned to find we moderate posts on our blogs. I'd got so used to MN's free-speakin' ways that I wasn't expecting it. Was rather expecting legions of people to leave me rude messages.

trouble is, people will go on there offering you garden-gnome-goes-with-donkey porn so you have to moderate

I've forgotten how to do links