Testing Testing - Ok so now here's our new look (but you don't have to have it, do you hear?)

[JustinExcelsisMumsnet]

This is a sneak preview of our redesign - it's planned across the whole site but we thought we'd give you a preview of Talk so you could give us your thoughts. ETA is early in the new year (God willing).

Two things we should make clear:

First Customise talk and Mn Classic WILL STILL BE AVAILABLE so don't panic if you really hate it!

Second it's not finished yet so not everything works perfectly - it's a test site.

You might wonder why we are bothering with a redesign by the way. We have had quite a lot of feedback that newcomers find the site a little hard to find their way round at first so we are trying to simplify it. We haven't changed much overall in nine years but we've added quite a few bits and bobs on, and to newbies it can be quite daunting we think.

And one more thing - we've found in the past (and we know ourselves) that change can be disorienting but do give it a go for a wee while before you trash it completely, please? .

There's no link to it yet - YetMoreTech will post it in a minute - he wants to add more caveats before he posts it up!

Hope you like it (or at least don't loathe it) - let us know your thoughts.

(Please address all complaints to [email protected])

Just had a look. I like the new talk index page, but when I click on any of the topics, I get a huge expanse of white with little arrows at the LH side of the screen and have to scroll down for aaaaaaaaages before I get to the thread titles. I'm using IE7 and vista home premium.

also agree once you are on the topic you are after, it looks just like any other forum, but no doubt we will get used to it.

If we want to stay with MN classic, will we have the new slicker looking talk index, but still be able to have all the thread on one page, or automatically have different pages? as I never got the hang of that. does that make sense?

right, once actually in a thread...

the white border either side is a bit wasteful. I don;t want to reduce my browser size as someone suggested on a test thread as I like to look at the whole screen.

the name headers are a bit big and clunky; the current ones are much better.

where does it tell you the number of posts on a thread once you are in the thread? not sure why I find this comforting, but the lack of it seems weird and scary! how do we know when we are about to reach 1000 posts on any of the long running threads and need a new one?

ah, just getting to grips with it a bit more.....the expanse of white appears to be the size of the ads and the lore ipsum stuff. Looks clunky that you then have to scroll down to get to the actual posts.

also, the second ad that appears on the Active convos page looks like an afterthought, and when the ad changes from a square one to a long thin one, i have to scroll down even further to get to the thread titles.

you've probably answered these already though or taken note of them, so feel free to ignore my comments.

the add message box looks like it has been carried over from this version of MN and looks wrong, like it doesn't fit with the look of the new site.

but overall, I quite like it

Daisy, the 'expanse of white' is an IE thing - YMT has said he's going to fix it on Monday.

oh, thanks Rusty

< at having not taken in all tech's responses on this thread>

another Q.....

why do we need two adverts at the side anyway?

but on a positive note, I like all the shortcuts at the bottom, makes navigating through the site much easier in that you don't have to go back to the full list every time.

Exactly samja. I am interested in what has been said primarily, not who said it.

I always have a full-width browser and now there's wasted space at each side, so that doesn't really work for me at the moment. Also, when I increase the typesize (using shift+ in Opera), I now get a scrollbar across the bottom when the text gets past a certain size, so in effect I can't read the messages any more then. That's a disaster for me as when feeding a baby or holding a sleeping one and surfing I sometimes am further from the monitor than is ideal and often end up magnifying the text a bit.

I think I may use the classic version at the moment, so in terms of 'look' this is not my cup of tea at all (sorry) - I just want to read the words, not have lots of coloured bars with their own contrasting decoration (the purple arrows) drawing my eye away from the messages all the time. With this, when I glance down the page, what's easy to read are all the posters' names, while the messages themselves are sort of lost in between.

I think datedness probably matters for some parts of the site more than others but IMO when it comes to the pages of messages in a thread the main aim should be readability and the coloured bars detract from that a lot. They work like brakes on eyes trying to read down quickly, because they're coloured, and a little bit busy with the purple arrows too. I don't think everyone reads threads pausing to note the poster each time before reading what they say - I suspect a lot of people shoot down reading the posts first and only look back at some of the names afterwards. Obviously that'll vary a bit by forum but I think the new design could be slowing people down to read poster's names highlighted in blue that they don't actually want to read at all for every post of every single thread.

Thinking about newspapers (print and online), they may do a lot of redesigning of some elements at times, but the main text always stays easy to read, and isn't broken up too many times by e.g. colour between sentences or paragraphs. The same goes for books - however much covers may be updated, there are certain tried and tested formulae for quick and easy readability of the main body of text that have been around for centuries (and only tend to be changed for things like textbooks that are designed to be read and thought about very slowly). Obviously this is because readability trumps other issues like how dated something looks, otherwise editions of the same book produced 20 years apart would be wildly different inside - as it is the inside stays pretty much the same and it's only the cover that's kept new for the sake of being new.

Obviously a mumsnet thread is not quite like a newspaper story or book chapter, but it's still something people often want to be able to read down fast, without having to fight their eyes being drawn all the time to the coloured bits in between what are sometimes very short posts. The new look at the moment 'breaks' the wonderful clear and fast readability of Mumsnet talk that makes it stand out from all those busy, unnecessarily highly coloured, other forums, IMO. So thumbs down sorry (though I know I'm hopelessly outnumbered here and doomed...).

I quite like it

PS I am a typesetter.

S'betterer innit, nice and clear.

I like it, the topic list is much clearer, and the 'within thread' stuff is easier to make out. If I have to raise a voice of criticism (and it wouldn't be MN if I didn't now really, would it!) I'd say the right hand ad space is horribly large. Though that McAfee ad is looking fairly inyer face so maybe that's already upon us...

I'm another user who uses the Last 15 Minutes page. Could it be added to the horizontal text links after 'Unanswered messages'

While you are doing work on the site, could the 'untitled' thread bug be fixed? I.e. Having some scripting on the Create New Conversation page which checks that the Subject line actually contains something... prompting the user to enter something if it is found to be blank.

I'm another user who uses the Last 15 Minutes page. Could it be added to the horizontal text links after 'Unanswered messages'

While you are doing work on the site, could the 'untitled' thread bug be fixed? I.e. Having some scripting on the Create New Conversation page which checks that the Subject line actually contains something... prompting the user to enter something if it is found to be blank.

I don't actually see why you are asking us, other than it just being a hurdle before you launch the new site. there is no way you would spend all that time, money and effort and then just not launch it.

I don't like the new site i can't find my way around it, i can't find the chat page, i can't sign in (have been a member for long enough)

I DON'T LIKE CHANGE!!!

so everybody is going to bugger off to this new site and i am going to sat here on the 'old' mumsnet posting on my own

that is until you have got enough of your users over to not care about the rest and then will close this one down. thanks a bunch!

Willthe two sites be linked? so you can post and it be seen on both? i think that would be a good idea because i definately won't be using the new one.

but i am sure the opinion of just one MNer doesn't mean alot does it.

MotherChristmas2OliverJames, no no no and no! The "new" site is just a testbed. What'll happen, when it's ready, is that the new features, content and look will be applied to the site you're looking at now. There won't be 2 versions running together. And yes, we are definitely going to make changes but we're asking for feedback so that we can make any adjustments that are required.

Last 15 minutes is by no means out of the question. In fact the last conversation I had was that we were dropping last hour because it makes no sense (the site is too busy and there are too many posts in an hour to make a list of them useful) but keeping Last 15 minutes. I think it may have been removed temporarily because it wasn't working quite right.

The width of the page is a really tricky thing. We'll revisit it though.

The add post box is due some styling, yes.

Typogrelf (and Samja - though do note, the blue bars were the product of a graphic designer!) we do understand what you're saying. But it's also true that some people do like to scan a thread based on the posters. I think we'll try a less saturated and lighter blue (and thus less prominent) for those horizontal bars and see if people like it.

Just had a quick look. Looks like most other forums. Mumsnet will loose it's 'unique-ness', iykwim.

YM Tech, I thought I saw a list of threads on the new forum with two columns with OP names and last poster names and now I can't find it. Did I make it up ?!? Can we have that bit back ?

Like this?

I think it's when you click on a topic.

(I've realised that the reason the ad looks huge to me is because it's not a proper ad so my blocker hasn't blocked it. I'm not used to seeing any of them )

Yep, ike that. Tech, can we have the same two columns (OP and last poster) on the active list, it would be better than 'last post time' to have the OP name instead...what do you think ?

The layout of the new Active list is certainly cr*p as it stands....

Oh my goodness, I use Last Hour every single time I log in!

It is far more useful than Active Convos or Last 15 minutes.

i like it.

There is a minor glich on the current mumsnet that has been bugging me for quite some time.
In Threads I'm on, or search... you know when you click on someones name and it takes you directly to their post? Quite often it doesn't work and just takes you to the 1st post on the thread.

Also, in Threads I'm On, is it possible to automatically bump a thread to the top of the list whenever someone has posted on it? (like active convos).

I agree with others that the white spaces down both sides of page are a bit of a waste of space/annoying.

I'd also get rid of the quirky little purple arrows! Although I'd keep the "add a message" bit.

Will the words "report/contact etc" be replaced by the little icons that are on the current site?

How long with the test site be up? If its going to be a few weeks is there any way I can update my name on there? I feel like I'm not me posting as PinkPurple

I can't find chat

I think you've only dared to do this as so many oldies have flounced!

Please can we keep last 15 minutes and last hour but get rid of last day. i shouldn't think anyone uses that.