Violence against children on Mumsnet

[PuttingOnTheKitsch]

There is a thread on AIBU where the posters are gleefully sharing tales of violence against children including one where someone's ex tripped a child so that "his face was turned to mush".

This is just the tip of the iceberg of the anti-child sentiment that seems to be permeating MN. Yes, people have always eye-rolled about other people's children, but there seems to be something increasingly sinister happening. Not everyone on MN is who they claim to be. We know about all the people who find pleasure in various types of attention- seeking, plus the standard Herberts, but there are unfortunately also people who enjoy children suffering and it very much seems like they've found their way onto Mumsnet.

I’ve never seen any posts like you’re claiming!

OP, I am on MN for many more hours than I should be and have no idea what you're referring to. The OP on the thread you mention tripped over a child on the floor and was angry at his parents. I have seen nothing from adults wishing to physically hurt children, ever.

@plims the op may have been making a joke, but some of the replies were awful, and definitely not presented as jokes. Including one about deliberately tripping a child and turning their face to "mush", as mentioned here.

If you read the whole thing is was actually really shocking.

The catchphrase was 'Language Timothy', not 'Manners.

I agree that both of these things are happening.

1)We know that the Manosphere don't like MN and that there is a type of man on child free sites who actively seems to hate children and spends vast amounts of time talking about who awful women on parenting sites are. I do think some of these people are posting on here.

2)Yes, there have always been child free women on MN. But they generally never got involved with parenting threads. Now it seems no big deal for virtually every single thread where a mother is struggling to have at least one dullard posting "This is why I don't have children".

The last thread I saw where people were gleeful about accidentally on purpose hurting children was finally deleted after a few days. They pop up fairly regularly now where the OP says what they did, other posters share the time they apparently did similar and others fantasise about how they would have done it. It’s sick. Posters that say it’s awful are made fun of until mumsnet decide to take action.

There is also more subtle child hating going on. For example, a posters child has done something wrong and the OP asks about suitable consequences. Some posters take their suggestions to the extreme and often when you look at their posting history, it’s a pattern of behaviour for them.

The motives of people hanging around a parenting site to do say these things should be questioned and I’d like to see mumsnet cracking down on it.

These vile posts and even more absurd comments are a great way for people to out themselves as child abusers. It'll be helpful for SS to identify evidence against them when they inevitably get reported, because god knows whats happening at home if this is the behaviour theyre condoning online.

Some of the comments on that post were utterly disgusting. People trying to cover it up as a "joke" are enablers and no better than the people making the comments. Also embarrassingly obvious that it was just rage bait, and was successful in bringing out the crazies.

And I know people are likely going to come for me for this comment, which just says an awful lot about them. Say what you want and out yourself further. People are rightfully outraged and disgusted by fellow users ""joking"" about physically harming children, and there are, unbelievably, people defending them and their comments. If I joked I was going to "give your child a proper kicking, so they know how it feels", would it still be a joke?

This place is revolting lately.

It’s not a “dark sense of humour”. Joking about hurting children shouldn’t be anyone’s “thing” unless they are weirdos.

Adding to this, please dont excuse comments condoning physical abuse against children by calling it dark humour.

Dark humour is more;

What's the best thing about sleeping with 23 year old? - There's 20 of them

You know you’ve changed as a person when you whisper "don’t wake up", and you’re talking about your own child during nap time.

Obviously both still sick, but clearly intended as a joke. Saying things like "next time give them a proper kicking so they know how it feels" is not dark humour. Its just disgusting and is encouraging the physical abuse of a child. Whether meant seriously or not, it is in no way dark humour. They didnt say it as a joke, they didnt mean it as a joke. It was so obvious by the way those comments were written and I cannot believe people are still defending them.

This was always going to happen with the introduction of the child free board. Some threads on there are full of venom against children and parents. Not all, but a lot.

I agree with this.

Are you saying the childfree board is full of venom against children and parents? Evidence?

I do see quite a few posts being quite venomous against women who don't have children - it's the reason the childfree board was introduced, yet there's a fair old smattering in there as well.

"This is why I don't have children" isn't the most constructive reply on threads bewailing the stresses and strains of family life, but it's valid. It's no different in essence from saying you don't have white carpets/sofas because you have dogs (or toddlers).

Some people need to get their heads round the idea that childfree women aren't making a global statement about the value of mothers or children. They're just doing what's right for them.

No, it is not a "valid" thing to say on a site called Mumsnet, in response to someone who is struggling with motherhood. It's asinine, unhelpful and self-aggrandising.

And people on here are far, far, too polite in response to such comments. If you weren't a dog owner, but spent your life on a dog owners' forum saying how glad you were that you didn't have a dog, people would view that 1)As trolling and 2)As deeply sad behaviour, by someone who clearly has something lacking in their life.

Yet for some reason there are some child free women do this on Mumsnet, while in the next breath saying how fulfilling their life is without children. I don't know who they think they're fooling, but I'm unconvinced.

saying how fulfilling their life is without children. I don't know who they think they're fooling, but I'm unconvinced.

Do you believe women's lives can't be fulfilling unless they have children?

It's fascinating how you can understand that I wasn't referring to all people without dogs in my post, yet you are simultaneously incapable of understanding that I was not referring to all childfree women.

It wasn't even a good analogy. A dog owners' forum is very likely to be populated by users with one thing in common and one topic of conversation: dog ownership. Anyone dropping in there to cast shade on them would be there for the specific purpose. I'm sure there are such people.

The case of Mumsnet is a lot more ambiguous. It obviously spreads far wider than talks about motherhood. Users are predominantly women - which is why I'm here - and women predominantly have children. That doesn't mean women must or should have children before contributing here. People without kids have things to say, lives to share and advice to offer.

Setting oneself up as a judge of forum content and/or the composition of its membership is weird, as I said in the post you (presumably) had deleted. I get that, now it's well-known, MN attracts more freaks, trolls and activists than before. It's just that several regulars seem way too eager to assume bad intent and too fast on the report button. Why not question the writer's intent, there on the thread?

I also said it's hypocritical to have a whole thread deleted because of a few off-colour replies - and then copy those replies into another thread (above). I stand by that.

I didn't have any post on this thread deleted.

If you are child free and spend your time reading endless threads about being a parent and posting on them "I'm glad I don't have kids", then you are exactly the same as the non-dog owner trolling a dog forum.

Did you notice the bold. I didn't say All of Mumsnet, I said very specifically threads about being a parent.

I'm childfree and I didn't even open the thread about kicking a child. My parents used to beat me till I bruised when I was a child, I have no interest in reading threads from the point of view of people who are violent towards children because they bring back bad memories.

several regulars seem way too eager to assume bad intent and too fast on the report button. Why not question the writer's intent, there on the thread?
Regulars know that questioning intent on any thread is more likely to get them deleted so it is therefore wiser to report and let MN decide.

Thanks for posting, @PuttingOnTheKitsch We think there is an obvious difference between describing an accident and condoning violence towards a child, and we're unlikely to allow posts that encouraged or celebrated harm to children.

In this case, the OP was describing an incident where she says she tripped over a child who was lying on the floor. However, as the thread developed, some of the replies went beyond discussing the incident itself and into territory many of you found very uncomfortable, which is why we removed it.

More broadly, we do understand the concern about tone on some threads involving children. People are allowed to be irritated by behaviour and to disagree with other people’s parenting, but if it tips over into something else, we will likely step in.

As ever, we rely on your reports, and we do read them carefully, so please continue to alert us if you have concerns. Thanks, all.

That board is there for a valid reason. And please think carefully - the name for the board was agreed after consultation, but don’t assume everyone is child free by choice (not that it should matter with regards to experiences or views posted by those it concerns).

Firstly, this site has become so much more than just being about parenting. It is pretty much the only women-centric site of its size. I have no interest in plumbing the depths of Reddit! Where else can I easily explore gardening, pets, tv, womens rights, etc?

There is NOTHING wrong, on a child free board (which you don’t have any need to look at if you’re not CF), for sharing feelings about why your ok with being CF. If, on any other boards, CF people are being aresholes with their comments then absolutely hit the report button straight away, anyone being an idiot should be called out.

But don’t tar that board with one very large brush. And, on a lot of posts, if you take time to read through them, you’ll find that some responses may seem “rude”, but it’s usually a result of people being tired of answering the same old shit that is posted on there, time and time again, by parents who don’t like the views of those who are CF.

Pretty much most posters on that board don’t hate children and don’t have “venom” in their posts. They are aunts, friends of parents with kids, etc, They like kids, they just don’t want their own or have been unable to have them. Again - please remember that the board is there for all reasons.

Thank you for this thoughtful post.