So what's going on here? Rage bait style thread has been whitewashed to remove blatant racism...

[BoobsOnTheMoon]

...and when I queried it with MNHQ I got a very strange answer

This thread started off with an OP that made specific reference to a child with a "foreign sounding name". Several posters, including me, responded to that calling out the racism.

MNHQ, even though the OP hadn't been back to the thread, removed that sentence completely. The multiple replies calling out the racism then made no sense at all. The edit isn't like when a poster edits, because you can't still see the previous version. So effectively it's been whitewashed. Bang and the racism is gone. Nothing to see here.

I was pissed off about this because yesterday MNHQ had told me it wasn't in fact possible to edit a post of mine to clear up the meaning, despite it only being a fairly small error. So I emailed and asked them to clarify what the rules are about editing posts for people after the edit window closes.

I got a reply that didn't really make a lot of sense, telling me that in this case the OP was edited because it "was a significant content error". This is extremely odd wording for removing all trace of the outright racism in an OP, especially where the poster has never posted before and hasn't returned to the thread. The OP actually has a number of AI tells, and is very much edging towards obvious rage bait, and I'm not entirely convinced the poster is genuine. In fact, given the very odd reasoning from MNHQ and the goady style of the post, I'm starting to wonder if MNHQ know that its AI rage bait and are letting it stand anyway, and only edited it to make it less obvious.

So can anyone clear up why this post was edited in this way despite the OP vanishing? Why was it described to me as "a significant content error" when it was nothing of the sort? What's that wording about? Did the poster ask for the bit about the "foreign sounding name" to be removed and if so how come that was ok when other posters are told their posts can't be changed for them? Is the poster even real, or are MNHQ knowingly allowing/collaborating with AI rage bait bots to drive engagement? Something feels really off here tbh.

On the plus side, the racism was deleted, which is refreshing.

Well, this is true.

Resolved now - thanks @BeckyAMumsnet

Thank you for clarifying 👍

Another thing that has just occurred to me is why you have been able to discover on closer inspection that it was a previously banned poster... but presumably the original moderator was unaware of this. I wonder if you need a better system for flagging up when a reported poster hasn't been banned previously - either an automated flag or a manual check etc?

It is fairly obvious that the training being received, fell short for that particular moderator, who should have just deleted the obvious racist OP. As a pp rightly stated, there should be a system in place that would flag up previous banned posters.

That's what is puzzling me too. The word 'error'. An inflammatory comment from a deliberately goady poster is hardly an 'error', and 'significant content error' sounds like an official phrase, not something an admin would coin herself.

So the mod didn't do any due diligence on a clearly inflammatory one post wonder poster and oh so kindly helped them out by deleting their racist add on to a slagging off poor people thread?
okey doke

It is a bit sloppy, imo. I wonder about these training sessions, and who is running them.

MNHQ do edit posts to remove identifying details such as names, so being generous, perhaps the mod misread the original report as that the poster had accidentally named someone, rather than alluding to a name in a racist way.

@BoobsOnTheMoon the next moderator assumed this was an edit the OP had requested to fix a mistake. That was wrong, and we didn’t handle it properly. Just to be clear, the OP clearly broke our Talk guidelines and should have been removed as soon as it was first reported. As we've said, we're conducting a full review today as to why that didn't happen.

I don’t understand. Clearly the moderator mousy have the “report” message and would have seen it didn’t come from the OP. Also, when it is edited at the OP’s request, the flag says so. This didn’t. AND, even if they did think it was at the OP’s request, it wasn’t a content error.

Haven't you got anything better to do. Jeezus

This doesn’t make sense? Why would they write it’s a content error?

I think in general the amount of racism on MN is unacceptable, and speaks to a Societal problem, generally. If something like this, highlights to MNHQ, that their mods need more ongoing training, I hope that will be the case, and it is not just words.

'Sure! Want me to make that less racist for you?'

*possible actual footage 😉

Haven’t got anything better to do than call out racism and wonder how MN’s moderation deals with racist posts/posters? -The answer is No

To be honest, it explains rather a lot...

This just raises even more questions tbh.

The first moderator apparently has no idea how to deal with a racist posts and therefore mishandles the situation when racist content is reported. They fail to identify a previously banned poster and they fail to delete the racist thread. Instead, they randomly edit the post.

Someone then queries the unusual approach to moderation.

The second moderator does not bother to invesigate this query properly, but simply makes an assumption about what might have happened and responds to the query accordingly.

It's not great @BeckyAMumsnet. If MNHQ is serious about tackling racist content on the site, then this really highlights some significant weaknesses in your processes that need to be sorted out.

In MNHQ's defence they have on many occasions, and quickly, made edits to my post when I've been caught up in the story of my terrible experience and have left my child's name in the post or something very identifying. They have also done so when regular posters on a long-running thread have reported each other's posts because of identifying content, knowing that if the poster realised, they would want it anonymised. So it isn't as simple as 'delete or leave'.

However, IMO, anybody reading a thread about a charity present containing the words 'foreign sounding name' should have immediately known it was a deletion issue rather than an editing issue, and if they weren't sure, they should have hidden the thread and asked their manager.

I'm sure MNHQ know how many clicks that thread received and any click even 1 minute after MNHQ became aware of the thread was too many in my view.

Ffs. It's not racist to refer to a foreign sounding name. What the fuck is going on? Why does everyone and everything have to be jumped on? I'm just so sick of this.

I agree. I have no issue with MN deleting identifying specific info etc from posts in order to protect people's privacy.

But as you say, it should have been very obvious to the first moderator that this wasn't the situation in this case.

What's more concerning here, from my perspective, is that the second moderator didn't even bother to check what the first one had actually done, even after concerns about the initial moderation had been raised. They just made an assumption and sent a dismissive message about a "significant content error". Whatever the fuck they thought that actually meant!

It's very difficult to have any confidence in the moderation process when we now know that any concerns which we may raise regarding specific moderation decisions may be dismissed so lightly and with such little care.

Context is everything.

Obviously it's not racist if it's in any way relevant.

It wasn't relevant, and in context it was racist.

Plus it's now been confirmed that the poster was previously banned anyway, so...

It is in the context of a young child not being worthy of a present of a certain value. The OP was implying that 'a foreign child wants an extravagant present'.

What the fuck is going on?

Well, let's read the thread and look at the facts of the case.

Some people who were on the original thread perceived that the OP of that thread was being racist. They reported these concerns.

MNHQ have confirmed on this thread that the post in question clearly broke talk guidelines and should have been deleted, but that didn't happen because of a moderation cock-up.

MNHQ have also confirmed on this thread that the poster in question was a previously banned poster.

Hope that has helped you to better understand what's going on. I'm really sick of all the racism too, and of all those who seek to minimise it and pretend that it isn't there.