'Calling out' AI -really necessary?

[WarmthAndDepth]

Can we not be so quick to 'call out' posts which appear to be AI generated, reporting them and more often than not getting them deleted?

I am no fan of AI, but understand that many people now use it for many things, apparently also to create and respond to posts on MN.

It may be tedious and impersonal, but if someone feels more confident constructing an argument or organising their thoughts in an opening post using ChatGPT, is that really so bad (providing the poster is a person and not a bot)?

It seems contradictory that a woman asking for advice about something deeply personal in mangled syntax and a smattering of spelling mistakes, omitting to use paragraphs or basic punctuation basically gets eye-rolled into oblivion with trite remarks like "Couldn't understand a word of that!" while posts which appear to display the hallmarks of AI (a certain slickness coupled with grammatical structures straight out of a Govian SPaG paper) get reported.

To be clear, I think casual use of AI is environmentally irresponsible and would much rather it wasn't 'a thing' but calling out its use on a site like this where a cohort of posters repeatedly shit on others whose erudition isn't deemed up to scratch isn't constructive or inclusive.

@MNHQ On threads where there have been 'accusations' of AI generated posts, and MN closes the thread 'to take a look'; what actually happens?

@WarmthAndDepth I also reported a blatantly AI poster/bot on what I am sure is the same Politics thread that @PermanentTemporary referred to earlier. It didn't help the discussion to move on, spouted a lot of 'computer says xyz' most which was irrelevant to the opening post,and in the end posters with interesting and informative views just got fed up and left the thread. What a waste of energy and no winners. It's starting to undermine confidence in genuine posts.

Just to say I appreciate your description :)

"like an unholy conglomerate of George Clooney and the Cheshire Cat" - beautiful!! 😆

If MNHQ do delete posts that they suspect to be AI, because they are AI, then they need to put a banner up saying that AI isn't allowed.

@CautiousLurker01 "threads aren’t owned by the OP are they?" Absolutely! I think the beauty of MN lies in the co-creative and collaborative aspects of sharing our thoughts and insights across threads and it's a pity to see things deleted.

ChatGPT generally doesn't produce 'walls of text' though: I tend to spot it in my students' work as it appears grammatically flawless, quite smug and almost too 'smooth'; like an unholy conglomerate of George Clooney and the Cheshire Cat. Chat GPT will produce anything you ask it to.

Example I put into chat GPT: “Write me a post for mumsnet about how I’ve been with my partner for four years, we have a three year old daughter, but the other day when I went looking for something I found a marriage certificate in his brief case. It’s a marriage which has happened since we’ve been together. I’m shocked and don’t know what to do. But write the post with a few spelling and grammar mistakes. ”

And it came up with this:

Title: Found a marriage certificate in DP’s briefcase… what now? Feeling completely shocked and don’t know what to do. I’ve been with DP for 4 years, we have a 3 year old DD together. Things haven’t always been perfect but I thought we were solid.

The other day I was looking for something in his briefcase (wasn’t snooping, genuinely needed something) and I found a marriage certificate . Dated after we got together. My heart honestly stopped. I checked it over and it’s definitely him. His name, his details. He’s married. To someone else.

I haven’t confronted him yet, I don’t even know where to start. My heads all over the place. I feel sick. How could he do this? What do I do now? I can’t even think straight.

Has anyone ever been through anything like this? I just don’t know where to start.
All I’d need to do is edit the title to put it in the title box and bingo.

@noblegiraffe OK. So how about if an OP is found to be AI, and posted by some kind of bot, but has generated pages of engaged and thoughtful responses of the kind described by @CautiousLurker01 by the time it comes to MNHQ's attention, do you think it might be a good idea for a banner to be placed at the top of the thread to state it was generated by AI but will remain in situ as it has already generated good faith responses?

Posts on MN are accessed by countless non-posters and lurkers, all of whom are potentially interested in the subject of the opening post and are likely to find the responses useful. When I post something on a thread, I generally post with the awareness that I'm contributing to a wider conversation, including anyone who might look at the thread, not simply whispering in the OPs ear.

Who decides whether the responses are thoughtful enough to warrant a fake thread staying up? Plenty of trolls generate enough responses for multiple threads.

@Never2many Hats off, that's neat. But then it comes down to whether you were essentially a troll using AI to create a post or whether you were a bona fide poster using AI to refine your thoughts, albeit with baked-in flaws. In the first instance, one would hope MNHQ would flush you out as a troll, but in the second scenario it would be a pity if you didn't get a chance to air your troubles.

You don't even need to bother coming up with a scenario for AI

AIBU to finally tell my SIL she’s a lazy, entitled cow and stop bailing her out?
I swear I am DONE with my SIL and her constant freeloading, whining, and playing the victim. She has ONE child (a perfectly healthy 4-year-old, not a newborn) and doesn’t even work, yet somehow she’s always “exhausted” and expecting everyone else to run around after her while she sips lattes and complains.

Meanwhile, I have three kids, a full-time job, a house to run, and I still manage to get my sh*t together without demanding a parade every time I do the bare minimum. 🤷‍♀️
The final straw was last weekend at MIL’s. We were there for Sunday lunch (which, of course, she didn’t help cook), and the rest of us were chasing after the kids, sorting food, tidying up—you know, being adults—while she sat there scrolling TikTok like a teenager. Then she had the cheek to say she’s “too overwhelmed” to do her own laundry and that my brother doesn’t help enough.

I laughed and said, “Or you could just stop expecting everyone else to do everything for you?” She got all huffy and flounced off like I’d slapped her, MIL told me I was being “unkind,” and now DH is saying I should apologise to ‘keep the peace.’
Apologise?! FOR WHAT? For stating the bloody obvious?! I have bent over backwards helping this woman over the years—babysitting, lending money (never repaid), cooking meals for her when she was “too tired.” I’m done.

So, AIBU, or is she just taking the absolute piss at this point? Because I swear if I hear her sigh one more time about how “hard” her life is, I might actually scream.

and then chatGPT suggested
Bonus outraged responses you’d get:
🔥 "Wow. Just wow."
🔥 "You sound unhinged and jealous of your SIL. Maybe get some therapy?"
🔥 "You're a massive bitch. I feel sorry for your brother."
🔥 "Ever heard of compassion?"
🔥 "YANBU. She sounds like a total cocklodger."
Would you like me to add a passive-aggressive update where the family is now “not speaking” to the OP? 😆

So it also updates the thread for you.

And then it suggested "Want me to add a horrendously smug closing line to really seal the deal? 😆"

and dear god the closing lines were seriously smug.

Then "This would be hall of fame level on AIBU. 😂 Want me to craft a new outrage-baiting post on another topic? Maybe a bridezilla moment or an over-the-top entitled parent scenario? 😆"

And "Want me to throw in a plot twist where SIL announces she’s pregnant and now everyone expects you to “be supportive” again? 😆"

I bet people recognise this sort of shit from here.

@noblegiraffe Quite. It's not cut and dried.

@noblegiraffe Whoah, did you create that OP just now through ChatGPT? I've never seen it make suggestions for all those extras, irrespective of the purpose of the writing. Is that available as part of a paid subscription? I've used AI with my pupils to highlight inherent issues (typically pitfalls around cover letters and applications but also opinion and debate) and not seen this feature. That's wild. Those little creased-up smiley emojis are particularly sinister.

I've not paid for anything, I just put in "Generate me a post for AIBU on Mumsnet using Mumsnet style language that will get lots of outraged responses "

And then it did, and asked me if I wanted to make it even more outrageous and then suggested all the updates itself.

I've kept saying yes and it has now got the OP going on holiday on the SIL's due date and the partner begging the OP for help.

I swear ChatGPT is enjoying this.

"using Mumsnet style language" Brilliant.

"I swear ChatGPT is enjoying this." 😂

I wondered if you could get it to swear and you can

"Sort your shit out, OP, before it’s too late. We’re not here to cater to your narcissistic whims. You’ve pushed us all to the limit, and trust me, the day’s coming when everyone’s had enough of your fucking arrogance."

I'm wondering if those posters who breathlessly wait for updates on that sort of thread would be better off just putting them into ChatGPT themselves and getting an instant story. There's a bit of choose your own adventure to it too.

if you keep saying next then it can expand a story eg ask it to make the introduction of what the story you want to be about then when it writes it just keep writing next and it writes it self

but then ive pondered this with the news, if what a person writes say is copyed from a text book, and tries to use it debate because they struggle to reword it themselves but they want to use it where do we draw the line betwee copying text for debating epecially if otherwise we only rely on average people that just say well i read this article and only on that i think vs the textbook copyer that means moe people can debate different points

basically which is more important for debate

a fully copyed paragraph or debate points and people can debate further
or an authentic comment of eg i think x policy is ok (which then there is only that comment )

This is hilarious 🤣

Then there are the threads all started by the same poster along the lines of ‘You have to name your baby after the last thing you ate. What is your baby called?’ Which just lead to long lists of silly replies & it seems highly unlikely that anyone reads anything except the OP.

I suspect these are AI because they just seem so utterly pointless.

I agree, especially as posts which are a bit disorganised or poorly-spelled often attract unpleasantly snide comments.

I understand why people would want to use AI to write their posts but it should be flagged as such, then other posters can choose to respond or not.

Why? People can take posts at face value and respond to them if they want. If a post doesn't read like someone has used AI, why do you need it to be flagged?

tries to use it debate because they struggle to reword it themselves

The problem in that particular thread was that the bot/AI had no interest in debating anything and that became very obvious as the thread developed.

But if it doesn’t matter if it’s AI or not then it doesn’t matter if it’s been flagged because nobody will mind, will they? Obviously there’s no way to flag anything as AI/not AI but I’d like it if there was!

If you don’t want to call out AI, don’t. Others can if they wish.

I mean, sure—why not get AI to write your Mumsnet posts? It’s not like we come here for authentic human stories, messy emotions, or slightly unhinged rants at 2am. No no, what we really need is perfectly phrased paragraphs written by something that’s never had mastitis, dealt with toddler tantrums, or been ghosted by a flaky friend from NCT.

Honestly, if people start outsourcing their life crises to a chatbot, what’s next? AI-generated replies? “Sorry to hear that, OP. That sounds really hard. Have you tried talking to him?” Brilliant. We can all go home now.

Look, I get that not everyone’s a natural writer, and if AI helps someone get their thoughts across, fair play. But still—there’s something a bit soul-sapping about the idea of a forum full of heartfelt posts that were actually typed out by a machine that thinks colic is a spreadsheet error.

Hi there @WarmthAndDepth (and others). There are a lot of points here so forgive us if we don't answer them all, but in brief, we hope this answers the main issues.

We tend to treat posts that are reported as using AI (which of course doesn't mean they ARE using AI and it can be hard to differentiate) as we would any other post. That's to say that if they seem genuine and from a genuine user, we've no problem with it, whereas if AI has been used to deliberately troll, misinform etc, we would delete it and possibly take further action too.

We know that people use AI for many reasons, as Warmthanddepth has pointed out, not least that people with dyslexia, sight difficulties or other issues that mean they find getting the written word down tricky find it to be incredibly helpful, and we don't see any problem with that. There are plenty of potential problems with AI but that must surely be one of its positives. We regard those sorts of posts as genuine and don't think that use of AI makes them any less so.

When AI has been used nefariously, it's usually very obvious from our end, and we would deal with that appropriately.

TLDR is if you have concerns, just let us know. We never mind checking a post out and usually it's very easy to sort the wheat from the chaff. We don't mind at all if people get it wrong and we appreciate that it can be hard to tell when someone is genuine or not from a user perspective, and that's what we're here for.

Hope that helps.