It's time to rethink the Night Watch volunteer system

[TwigletsAndRadishes]

After the truly awful photos that have been posted on MNin the early hours of this morning, which I will never un-see, I think you need to have a different policy for overnight moderation.

The site is big enough and money-making enough to support a better system by now. There really needs to be proper 24 hour IT cover. At the very least, the Night Watch volunteers should be able to call a member of MNHQ who is on call overnight who has the ability to either deal with the issue or shut the whole forum down until it can be dealt with properly by the IT bods in the morning.

It's only been a handful of threads affected this evening, but it could potentially be a major spamming of dozens or even hundreds of threads next time. This site is used in other parts of the world in different time zones where more people risk seeing the grossly disturbing content than a relative handful of us up at 3am in the UK.

The current system relies on posters reporting any offending theads and hoping that a volunteer will pick up the report in good time and hide the thread. This morning one of the threads affected took far too long to be hidden, not that I am blaming an unpaid volunteer for that.

it absolutely does. i'm the owner of 100s of pieces of copyrighted artwork that was being shared without my permission on an image sharing site, i complained, proved ownership, and it is now impossible for anyone other than myself to post that artwork... so there is software available that can recognise that main subject in the artwork, even that created after the date of the complaint and block attempts to post it.

This isn’t the first time things have happened at night that the volunteers have been unable to cope with. It’s not their fault. It’s shocking that a site of this size is using unpaid volunteers- exploitative and (as we’ve seen) ineffective.

The whole site should have been taken offline as soon as this happened in order that all images could be removed, police informed and site security checked etc. Presumably that’s not something that the volunteers have the power to do so the poor people were left trying to manage in what must have been an incredibly distressing situation.

Time for some serious thought at MNHQ. I imagine this will also be in the press before long, which frankly won’t be a bad thing if that’s what it takes to get anybody to act. I imagine they’ll make changes sharpish when they realise it’s hitting advertising revenue.

I can’t believe this had to be dealt with by the Night Watch volunteers. @MNHQ please make sure they are supported properly. There have been many, many occasions when it’s been pointed out that it’s not okay to leave volunteers entirely unable to call on paid members of the team overnight.

MN, please put something in place as it’s been exploitative for a long time for such a major site. I hope the police follow this up.

So very glad I missed the images and I hope everyone who saw them is okay (as much as you can be after that).

Exactly

The moderators need a ‘desk Bible’ which tells them what to do and what not to do

The NightWatch are volunteer mods mainly based in different time zones. I’m assuming they’re trained.

But the protocols for dealing with certain categories of material do not appear to be sufficiently robust.

As I said, I don't know how these things are handled in the moment, which is why I asked the question. If I had to guess, I'd have said that if I had rung the police to report CSA images being posted on a forum in the middle of the might they'd have passed it on to some national investigation team who probably are 9-5ers, and MN would have carried on being live all night regardless. I'd like to hope I was wrong, but pragmatically I don't imagine I am.

Anyway, clearly I am not the only one who thought the same, as MN has been up and live all night. So these 24 hour cyber police clearly haven't been called by anyone else either, or they have, but it turns out they are not '24 hour' after all.

Absolutely. And definitely shouldn’t have to be dealt with by volunteers.
This whole thing is just shocking.

Words are not just as damaging fgs. They don’t require csa to happen to create them. This is actual young children to whom it happened not cgi.

I'm pretty speechless reading this thread. I'm so sorry for anyone exposed to those images.

Surely to god their IT people can set up a system whereby any thread receiving a report overnight can be auto-hidden until it can be reviewed? I know their IT abilities are rather limited quite often, but that cannot be beyond them?

And if there is AI which could automatically do the same thing when it detects a CSA or explicit photo, then they absolutely need to be investing in this.

A lot of people would be delighted if MN is shut down, and spamming with CSA pics is one way to go about it. I won't say which groups I am thinking of.

Those calling for MN to be shut down entirely —

Quite possibly that's the desired outcome, to panic people into closing spaces where women gather and support each other.

No need to shut the site down, it should be a relatively easy fix in terms of improving moderation.

I completely agree. The first one I saw was at 11.20 or so. Late but not super late. Poor @nitewotcha trying to fire fight.

Many of us reported the one I saw but it was only posting on the Night Watch that it was taken down.

@mnhq have some serious questions to answer.

But if the site was run properly that wouldn’t be able to happen.

so your point is entirely irrelevant. And this thread is not the place for starting a feminist rant.

They didn't ask anyone to post the images. They asked for a link to the thread to be sent to them if any further posts appeared. This is another area in which MN is not fit for purpose in its nighttime arrangements, as using the report button doesn't notify NW. The report isn't seen until the moderators are back on duty.

Let's not focus on the person who is doing an unpaid job with one hand tied behind their back, and is not doubt traumatised by what they've seen. The issue is the night hours arrangements that MN have set up.

Well... if we are thinking of the same people then they do have previous form for it. Also surprised by the couple of 'YOU MUST REMOVE THE ABILITY TO EVER POST PHOTOS RIGHT NOW' comments. Though I acknowledge it must have been so upsetting for anyone witnessing last night.

But the comments seem a bit bizarre and knee jerk considering pretty much every site has the ability to post photos.

Many people would be delighted at a site primarily for women having their ability to have conversations and share screenshots removed.

Good point

You are assuming the poster is in Great Britain, chances are they are further afield

No but MN should absolutely be held accountable for not having a policy on this and for not having staff in place 24/7 to react to it appropriately.

I'm an insomniac and usually on mn at all hours but I actually slept last night and I'm so shocked to see this has happened. I can't believe that there are no systems in place to prevent the sharing of such images and that there isn't a plan in place for if they are shared. Absolutely crazy and I'm so sorry for anyone who had to see the images 😔 I don't think I'd be able to cope had I seen them. It's been hours , where are mnhq?

I think the ability to post photos should be removed temporarily while they deal with this.
I saw the images and, bar this thread, will not be reading or posting on any of MN again until they can guarantee it won’t happen again. Too big a risk.

Firstly, I hope all that saw those images are ok this morning and have some support in place if needed.

Secondly, MN needs shutting down and complete reform. There is no excuse for what happened last night, none. For a site this size to have no screening tools when it comes to photos and no moderation overnight? Disgraceful.

You have a duty of care to your users Mumsnet.

I wouldn’t say they were ineffective. They shut the thread or removed images. Maybe not as quick as if a paid employee was sat there waiting but that’s understandable. I hope they’re ok.

If individuals have strong safety filters on their home internet, would they work? Do the filters work on actual content or on ‘places’?

So Pornhub would be blocked as a place, but an explicit image on a recipe thread would not?

And you and I shouldn’t be trying to guess what can be done-there should be a named person available 24/7 trained and authorised to take action.

Well yes. That was the whole point of ME starting this thread. You are arguing with the wrong person.