It's time to rethink the Night Watch volunteer system

[TwigletsAndRadishes]

After the truly awful photos that have been posted on MNin the early hours of this morning, which I will never un-see, I think you need to have a different policy for overnight moderation.

The site is big enough and money-making enough to support a better system by now. There really needs to be proper 24 hour IT cover. At the very least, the Night Watch volunteers should be able to call a member of MNHQ who is on call overnight who has the ability to either deal with the issue or shut the whole forum down until it can be dealt with properly by the IT bods in the morning.

It's only been a handful of threads affected this evening, but it could potentially be a major spamming of dozens or even hundreds of threads next time. This site is used in other parts of the world in different time zones where more people risk seeing the grossly disturbing content than a relative handful of us up at 3am in the UK.

The current system relies on posters reporting any offending theads and hoping that a volunteer will pick up the report in good time and hide the thread. This morning one of the threads affected took far too long to be hidden, not that I am blaming an unpaid volunteer for that.

All the more reason the nightwatch NEED proper paid and fully equipped staff on duty tonight

Im not sure that disabling posting of photos and AI software will provide a watertight solution. There's been a good few hackers in the past , also.

It is possible to like Mumsnet, to enjoy being here, to want to continue posting, and to disagree with the way this has been handled. Enjoying the site doesn’t mean you have to have unwavering support for the way it is run.

Again, you’ve completely missed the point. But yes you’ve made it very clear it’s pointless to try to get you to understand that.

The mods will still see such images though..There ought to be a method where no human needs to see them to take action.
What needs to happen is a ''Safe search'' like one has for google images- I have {Touch wood} never seen inappropriate images with safe search enabled.

agree with a PP who said it seems like some people are after Justine's blood.

I wonder why? Maybe it’s that she’s the CEO of a massive site raking in massive profits, but apparently running its site security on a shoestring. She’s not the put-upon unpaid committee chair of the local PTA…
People feel incredibly let down, especially those who had these foul CSA images literally shoved in their faces.

No they havent missed the point. Some of the posts on here remind me of the war threads where people were actively looking for videos of slaughtered babies. All this gunning for blood stuff is going to keep them occupied for days.

I don't know what people get out of it. Just log out for a bit. There are other things to do that pass the time and aren't upsetting.

Images have been switched off. There's not really much more than can be said atm.

Yes exactly. It's not like this couldn't have been foreseen. I've been here for well over ten years and people have been raising issues around both security and poor moderation for as long as I've been here. Those issues combined last night to the extent that the police are involved. I think it's justifiable for users to be pissed off.

If paid mods are dealing with this, @oakleaffy, they will be able to see the reports, which the Night Watch don’t. Presumably, if someone was reporting a thread for having CSA images in it, they would state this in the report, so the mods would, at least, be forewarned. Not massively better, but something.

How is it gunning for blood to want to know why this was allowed to happen? To have better assurances that this will never happen again, rather than the patronising response we received? And to wonder why there has not yet been a site-wide announcement regarding this? Anyone who was here last night, or who has empathy, will understand why this is so important to people. Instead what we get are people either accusing us of being a malicious force bent on bringing down MN, guillotine knitters, or that we should just go ‘log off’. I mean wtf. Category A CSA images were posted over a 5 hour period! But people who take serious issue with the fact this happened in the first place and the subsequent reaction are the ones with the problem?

I'm so sorry for anyone who was affected by this, especially the volunteers.

To be clear, these were pictures posted into the body of various MN threads, so anyone using the site could have been exposed to them without warning? That's enough to make me stop using MN altogether.

Had no idea that the Night Watch were unpaid volunteers - that's terrible.

Yes, multiple images just posted into random threads, with vile wording accompanying them. I was engaging with a thread at around 11pm and they just appeared in a post mid thread. I reported and closed MN down, but obviously the damage had been done by then.

Beautifully put. Couldn’t agree more.

Exactly. This isn’t a ‘if you don’t like it, look away’ situation.

Seems as though people don’t know that tagging MNHQ or using the report button doesn’t work after a certain time - you have to tag the night watch volunteers (is there a list of their usernames?) or post on a night watch thread.

I had no idea until today and have been using the site for years.

I can understand the need to be circumspect but there needs to be enough transparency to make people feel confident that they are safe.

I think the only post I've seen that meets your description was the poster this morning who asked "what exactly was posted?" (After it had already been made clear that it was CSA images)

There is nothing wrong with calling out the shortcomings of any organisation. If we feel threatened or unsafe, even moreso. Especially when it's clearly been an accident waiting to happen.

Saying 'just log out if you don't like it' is spectacularly missing the point (especially in the case of those who sadly saw the images, in which case it is too late for them!)

If the BBC was hacked and showed images of CSA, would you just say 'switch your TV off if you don't like it'?

Yes, it's a bigger organisation, but it is the same premise. People are right to seek answers and reassurance.

That said, I do believe there have been one of two posts today that I'd class as personal attacks on Justine. I don't agree with that at all.

No more news is coming tonight. Images have been turned off. If you want to carry on winding yourselves up so you struggle to get some kip then there's nothing more to say.

I'd strongly suggest self care though. But you do you. There's nothing more to say.

Yes I'm a long term user (many name changes) who is also appalled and disappointed by the inadequate response to this from MN. Very lukewarm and does not reflect the seriousness of the issue. MN seriously needs to get a grip.

I'm genuinely surprised at how much angrier people are with MN than they are with the actual perpetrator.

I think this is one of those instances whereby you can safely assume that people are first and foremost disgusted with the perpetrator. This is MN therefore people are questioning how this was allowed to happen on MN and wanting to know what MN are going to do about it. It sort of goes without saying that the perpetrator is sick.

If people had a direct route to have their say with the perpetrator, believe me, they would.

Can they have it where photos need to be approved before uploading maybe? So you post with a submission, an alert goes to a mod and they approve before it goes live?

One other thing, will those pictures and posters be traceable by police? I presume k will have been passed over, can they find out who was behind it?

I think that shows a distinct lack of critical thinking to be honest.
We don’t have a line of communication open with the perpetrator. We could rage into the ether and it would make no difference. This thread is a line of communication with MNHQ, and is directly addressing the actions taken (or not) by MNHQ.

I certainly don't want MN to shut down. However, it can't be run like amateur hour and having well intentioned, unpaid people on overnight, without the tools they need to do the job properly, the situation last night was always on the cards to happen.

Again, it is a multi million pound business and if they want us to be the content they need to build in better safeguards against the sort of thing that happened last night.

…I despair.

I'm amazed this hasn't hit news pages. This is criminal .

It will. I’d also recommend the others who witnessed the images to contact news sites. You can find the reporters in the contact pages - best to contact main news/U.K. news reporters/desks.