MNHQ - please help

[Thegreatestoftheseislove]

New Year’s best wishes to all of those in charge at @MNHQ and do their best to herd cats. Please could I respectfully request that, in line with other religious boards, Christian Mumsnetters does not appear on Active Discussions?

I have spent some time reporting several disruptive posts on a particular thread today … I’ve lost the will to report them all. A number of participants are unwilling to take notice of the statement at the top of the Christian Mumsnetters’ board and are simply using it as their own personal extension of the Philosophy and Religion board. A number of members, Christians and non-believers alike have politely asked them to desist, but, well, clearly they do not want to.

Herding cats is a challenging and thankless task at times. Please could the Christians amongst ask that you help in keeping our meeting place free from disrespectful disruption. It is not, or should not be the place to discuss whether or not God exists or if Jesus is Divine, as there are other places to take those arguments and discussions.

They are doing an online version of bursting into a church mid-meeting and shouting ‘it’s all a load of rubbish!’ It is rude, disrespectful and disruptive. They are entitled to their opinion, but there is a time and a place: Christian Mumsnetters is not it.

Thank you 💐🙏

I don't have an issue with their existence.
I do have an issue with some of the aggressive 'policing' by so called christians.
Religion is open to scutiny like anything else, of course in a respectful way (although some of the posters were clearly confused about that term too).

With that of which boards?

I'll very much disagree with the "respectful" part. Religions call for my death, as an unbelieving lesbian woman. Which is a tad, well, disrespectful

Surely I shouldn't be expected to keep a friendly demeanour when either murder, criminalisation or discommendation is what is offered to me - by superstitious stone-age beliefs no less.

The christians were accusing other (non-christian) posters of being disrespectful on the christian MNers board. They wanted special treatment, in that we weren't allowed to question anything at all about christianity, because it apparently offended them. Many of them were happy to be rude to other posters though, started quoting all sorts of scripture and saying things like only god can judge them.
I will always disagree with anyone who uses their so called faith to discriminate against or inflict pain upon others, including the lesbian and gay community. A few christians spoke up against the hardliners though.
I'm an ex-christian and some of the comments made me feel even more thankful about that fact!

Can I just point out that this was only some of the Christians. I know it's a minor point, but I don't want to be lumped in with them. I read more offended by those replies than the original comments.

I do think the Christian MNers board needs to be a place for Christians to discuss their faith without non believers coming and telling us we are wrong.
But I also think that discussion can, and indeed should, allow room for questions about what we believe and why. And what the Bible says and how we use that in the modern world.

Edited to add: Sorry. Missed the bit where you said that some Christians did stand up for the others. Apologies.

Thank you for your post - it does look like we are in broad agreement, at the least.

Hatred is still hatred, the fact it's been codified into a supernatural belief doesn't make it any less hateful.

At the risk of potentially being perceived as offensive, even if that's not at all my intention, why don't decent people, who do not hate, aren't bigots, and who identify as christian, make clear they have nothing to do with those christians that do hate?

Again, I'm sorry if this is perceived as offensive, but christian scripture and practise has been hateful for millenia. I'm afraid decent people might be trying to rehabilitate something which was far more violent up until a few centuries ago, and is still not quite done with the hating.

@sillything "But should the misogynistic, homophobic and racist posts on the part of the faithful be allowed to stand, unchallenged and unreported?"

I presume they are reported? Personally, I tend not to report things which aren't direct attacks on individuals- because I think if a poster is racist sexist or homophobic their posts should be left for all to see, but I know others report...

I don't find your question in the least bit offensive. I always try and politely refute offensive/bigoted Christian beliefs/opinions as "not all Christians". However, as with most things, the people with the strongest opinions shout the loudest and get heard the most. So other people think that is a core belief.

I don't necessarily believe that Christian scripture is hateful, although large parts of the old testament are. Which is why decent Bible study, including questioning what things mean for the modern world is important. The word 'love' occurs far more times in the New Testament than the word 'hate' for example. And that doesnt mean that bad things aren't done 'in the name of religion', but I don't believe that God wants us to do those things.

I don't report for the same reason. I just usually reply to say that not all Christians believe it's a sin or whatever.

For the record, my DS is a gay, autistic, ADHD Christian. God made him that way, and he is utterly perfect. (Obviously he's not literally perfect, but his flaws are not being gay, autistic, adhd.)

@HaddyAbrams I'm aware that you are one of the christians who spoke up and were willing to discuss things in a more open, and undoubtedly also more loving, manner.

Thank you. I try and always understand other people's POV, never try and convert anyone, but hope they feel a little of Gods love through me.

I had a chat with my Dad recently about why he stopped believing in God, and why I still do. My dad is very flawed, and could definitely 'do more'. But one thing that I love is that, whilst he admits that he doesn't know how I can still have faith after some family experiences we've had, he accepts that I do and is glad that it brings me peace.

You are clearly not just a decent person, you are a lovely one.

It sounds like I just wouldn't have to be afraid of your presence, I would enjoy it. I'm happy your child has you as a parent 🩵

But, still, and forgive my stubbornness, I don't think most people who call themselves christian are like you. In a purely egotistical manner, I'd find it useful if there was some way I could tell you apart from them from the outset - and this still holds true if you think you represent the original christian spirit, unlike them.

I'm scared and likely to run away from people who say they are christian, but I don't want to deprive myself of the company of the christians who are like you

Thank you so much. I'd say that most of the Christian I know are more like me than not. But that could be partly "birds of a feather flock together" and partly that it's being a member of my particular Church that has taught me a lot about being a good Christian.

I've just gone through a slew of homophobic posts on here and...

I decided to go back to yours.

It really does mean a lot. Your posts did restore some of my faith in humanity. You made this evening a little better for me :-)

Thank you, really. A great, big hug to you 🩵

Anyone is free to report any post they feel strongly about.

However, it's very difficult as a Christian to put forward the Scriptures (some) of us believe in that speak out against homosexual acts (for example). It's hard to explain how one can literally hate the sin but not the sinner. People throw that back at you with disgust. I've seen some very hateful things said in response to just quoting those scriptures. So much so that I wonder who exactly is being hateful.

And this will be a shameless pity-post:

My girlfriend died last year of cancer. I was at her bed-side when it happened. We weren't even middle aged yet...

Her parents barely acknowledged it, as we we'd been visibly a lesbian couple. I wasn't nearly as welcomed at her funeral as some of the, meanwhile paired with men, women who had also been her girlfriends.

I was devastated by the lack of recognition on the part of her parents. I was shunned while the other girls who did have past relationships with her were welcome, because they were "discreet". She was buried under christian rites, when she'd never wanted that.

I was crying so hard I couldn't see. But then her brother in law took me aside and told me it was all fine. God wouldn't just take her in. He would reincarnate and bring her back to us.

So many people have said so many bad things in the meanwhile, but her brother in law, a professed christian, did not, nor his family.

I'm not yet back from the brink, and I'm still not a believer. But I was taken aback by the kindness of that christian.

After so much crap, so much hatred, he and his family showed me love.

She is still gone, way too young, and I likely won't look for a partner again.

But that love did make a difference.

Blimey, I've just posted something that could be relevant. You're welcome to read my previous post.

After the hatred I've received elsewhere, I can't believe you'll hate me, or, at least, very much hope you don't. I certainly don't hate you 🙂

I am so sorry for your loss, and for her family's treatment of you.

If there is an afterlife (I'm not 100%sure what I believe on that) then you will both be reunited. And, if there isn't (as a wise man who disagreed with his late wife on that issue told me) then you'll never know.

But you'll never forget the love you shared. And that's so special.

Also, your posts this evening have bought a tear to my eye. In a good way. I'm just trying, and often failing, to be the best I can. So to know someone appreciated my comments is lovely.

I'm childless, but it does feel like peak entitlement to demand a board for childless women

It's a good thing that no-one demanded one then.
Some of them asked, MNHQ thought it a good idea and put it into place.

I am so sick of the frequency on Mumsnet of posters turning asking, or requesting, or even inviting, into 'demanding'. Usually it's a knee jerk response to a MIL doing the asking, so Mumsnet poster groups turning on each other is a new one.

You know?

We'd be utter reprobates and stay up till dawn with my telescope, trying to catch Mercury before the Sun went up.

And we'd have these discussions about the hard problem of consciousness. I'm afraid I kind of dominated these discussions, I'd ask her about Qualia, and then she'd asked me what that was. She was more oriented towards computers, I'm more oriented towards physics.

I still don't know what happens to the whole of your knowledge, wisdom and personality. Does it all go away? I mean, it could, but we are sentient, and being sentient seems rather extraordinary, even supernatural.

But I'm sure that's all a bit silly, I know.

My heart did kind of stop when I read your last post.

If anyone's failing, it's definitely not you. I cried, in the best way possible, by your not just having read my post, but actually answering it.

I don't talk about this with anyone in my life, as I'm often perceived to be an unemotional robot and can't afford to challenge that.

Your words have touched me in a way I can't quite describe. Wherever you are, please know you've helped me make through another week. Thank you 🩵

I really don't feel like arguing this late at night, but I was there when it happened and people were literally arguing for it.

Being childless is absolutely not being less privileged than having a child. And it is MUMSnet after all.

This is sillier than my username.

I don't know what happens to our consciousness etc at the end. I hope there's heaven, or an afterlife of some kind. That we will be reunited with our loved ones. Obviously Jesus promised us eternal life, so there must be. But I don't know what that looks like in reality. I have lots of issues with many of the ideas around that. It's an aspect of my faith that I struggle with.

I love the vision of the 2 of you staying up all night looking through a telescope and discussing all kinds of things. My ex and I had similar deep, meaningful conversations (and often total nonsense ones) late into the night because we'd rather be awake together than asleep. It sounds totally cheesy, but there we are.

Anyway, I'm glad my words have bought you some comfort. And my inbox is always open if you need a friend

I've cried again, and in a very good way. Your sweetness has reduced me into, well, nothingness.

I feel privileged that you've answered me again, when everything I've said was nonsensical.

I've been very afraid to contact her brother in law, even though he communicated he was open to it, as well as others. My grief is just too much, I've been pushing away all my friends. They don't deserve this "toxic" me. I'm all sorts of screwed up, but that's no one's fault.

Surprisingly most of them aren't taking it against me, but I feel so ashamed by neglecting them.

I love the vision of the 2 of you staying up all night looking through a telescope and discussing all kinds of things. My ex and I had similar deep, meaningful conversations (and often total nonsense ones) late into the night because we'd rather be awake together than asleep. It sounds totally cheesy, but there we are.

This has, obviously, brought me into tears again. I feel I should stop whining and ask about you. Which is something that might be best done by private message.

May I message you tomorrow?

I hope they are happy tears. Please message me whenever you have time. Tomorrow is fine. Sleep well and be blessed with dreams of your loved one.

I'm so very sorry for your loss. Of course I don't hate you! You're still a human being with feelings and an entire life history just like the rest of us. Loss hurts like hell, it really does.

I read your later post too, about staying up late to see Mercury! I've tried to spot it as well, when I had a telescope, although you don't need it for that task. I used to look at the night sky a lot and marvel at the creation, wondering if we are alone on this planet, or just how long everything has existed. Dark, quiet nights with just the stars and the odd owl half scaring me with its hooting! It's very special to have someone you can share those moments with.

In time, you could contact your brother in law again, when you feel a little less fragile. If the way is open there, take it. I wish you well. 🙂