Further Education & Sixth Form (post-16)

[Witheredspoon]

Hi MNHQ. I've been a Mumsnetter for years, especially on the Primary, Secondary and Higher Education threads, but only recently discovered the Further Education threads. In my experience, Further Education has always meant adult education, but to others it means 16+, so includes school Sixth forms, and sixth form colleges. How about changing the title to "Further Education & Sixth Form (post-16)' or to 'Post-16 and Adult Education' to help people recognise it?

It is really confusing. I read an explanation on a College website which said that ‘Further’ follows on from ‘Secondary’ education and includes A Levels, T Levels, Apprenticeships and Technical and Professional courses, (mainly Level 2 and 3, sometimes 1) which are publicly funded for 16 - 19 yr olds. The next tier is then Higher Education, (Level 4 -8) at Universities or University Centres, which has to be paid for by those who wish to access it. Maybe that’s the definition MN is using?

I think it's fairly well known that Further education refers to post 16, whilst Higher education refers to degree level onwards?

It's used differently in different countries and different areas. Where I grew up, there was a "Sixth Form College" and a "Further Education College". The latter was generally for adults who wanted to learn a new skill or add to their qualifications.

I expect some ambiguity crept in when the compulsory education age effectively rose from 16 to 18 (I know it's "education, training or employment" but the majority are in some form of full or part-time education).

FE has always been 16+, so VI Form and FE colleges and VI form colleges or tertiary colleges. Not that tertiary colleges really exist any more.

HE is university education.

FE colleges traditionally also had evening classes that could be attended by anyone 16+ but then the funding for adults dried up.

Maybe add the 16+ but there is no need to add VI Form.

Although OP it now makes sense why there are so many posts in HE that talk about VI forms.

Sixth Form colleges aren’t the same as FE colleges, for the sake of clarity. They operate quite differently (which is probably not obvious to the parent/student to be fair), being far more akin to schools in terms of staffing, terms and conditions, pay, holidays and so on.

This info message at the top of the Further Education forum suggests MNHQ is confused too, as university chat is located in the Higher Education forum, not FE as it says here.

Hi OP

Thanks for the suggestion - we'll have a chat about these boards in the office and keep an eye on the discussion over here.

Thanks @LilyMumsnet . This gov. uk definition might be useful.

@LilyMumsnet what did you conclude when you had your chat about the Further Education forum?

Here is a Government definition of FE: https://www.gov.uk/further-education-courses. It says that "Further education (FE) includes any study after secondary education that’s not part of higher education (that is, not taken as part of an undergraduate or graduate degree)." So why does the note at the top of the Mumsnet FE thread forum say "You'll find discussions about A Levels and universities on our Further Education forum"? Discussion about universities should be on the HE forum, not the FE forum.

It might possibly be helpful to have links between the HE and FE boards at the top as you do with some other related boards, but with accurate descriptions.

Yes, I agree with ErrolTheDragon. Also, I think the FE descriptor needs to change from "discussions about A levels and universities" to something like "discussions about A levels, T-levels, apprenticeships, vocational qualifications and other forms of adult education".

Ok but did you need to post that 4 times?