Corpus 2

[TokyoBouncyBall]

A summary would be good and I might do one later but Aston, data scraping, astonishing lack of contrition…

Yes, previous posters have said they've requested this but MN have said they'd have to report each post individually, which is obviously a huge time commitment and I'd argue is not 'in the spirit' really when someone's stolen the data and used it for a new reason which we did not consent to.

It's a bit of a problem if you previously posted under a former account (as I did) then asked for deletion of that account. My account was deleted but none of my posts were. If I now, knowing about the Aston shits trying to defame women, want those posts retrospectively deleted then how do I prove it's the same poster if I've also deleted the email account associated with that MN account.

I only deleted my account because of the previous data breach and a fear I could be linked in real life.

Thank you & I’m also sorry 💐I can focus in on things sometimes. I do get nervous about posting on here as you’re all incredibly coherent & intelligent, where as I’m a rambling mess most of the time 😂

I'm only intelligent in writing (and even that's a self-perception!)
But, Aston, my little 'uman fingers type the words, it's not an abstract real world iden-titty, nor a bot, wot does it.

I do think complaints via ICO are the way to go now, and will do so once I have the time.

Aston have shown they cannot be trusted with personal data, several times over.

I don't trust them.

I'm also interested not only in DPO 2018 and GDPR breaches but also copyright. People like Sarah P and Dennis Noel Kavanagh and - obviously - Glinner are paid writers. They've signed up to MN T&Cs if they're on here but they did not consent to use of their posts by Aston. Posts that can be linked to them in real life directly and for which they will retain copyright for any use outside of MN's use of these words (it says that in the MN T&Cs)

I would have thought they could sue for breach of copyright as well as DPO 2018 / GDPR breach of use of personal data. MN did not allow the Aston scraping, remember.

Relevant bit in MN Terms "Subject to the rights and license you grant to us under these Terms of Use, you retain all your right, title and interest in your User Content submissions. This means that copyright in your User Content will remain with you and that you can continue to use the material in any way, including allowing others to use it."

Firstly, I don't think your posts are rambling or a mess. You made some really good points.

Yes, why hasn't this been picked up by the media? It should have been.

I agree, it's about shutting down support for women and a place women can speak freely.

We need to support MN by reporting to ICO, Universities and others should not feel they can scrape MN with impunity.

Upthread a PP said something about how MN helps at least 1000 women a year to escape abuse, I think. It can be a lifeline for women who've been otherwise isolated. Losing this will harm women.

P.s. I think my posts are always a rambling mess compared to others too - there are some ferociously intelligent women on FWR! But they're generally friendly as long as you don't express an interest in eating warm milk, bananas and weetabix. There are some standards.

I had, to my shame, never heard of the other Arabella Scott until your post so I Googled.

This from the EDI pages of University of Edinburgh, no less.

https://equality-diversity.ed.ac.uk/celebrating-diversity/inspiring-women/women-in-history/arabella-scott

The irony, or hypocrisy, or both.

Of UoE that is, not OUR Arabella.

From that American funding page:

• Applications may include identifying counterintelligence risks, combating misinformation online, fighting human trafficking and even deciphering authorship of ancient religious texts.

Which one are mumsnetters again?

Ancient

Witches are indeed often depicted as elderly

@Yampy I think it's unfair to claim that Mumsnet are sweeping this under the carpet. There have been at least 3 threads about this (I think in Site Stuff?), and @JustineMumsnet has been open about the conversations she's been having with Aston. I'm guessing there's a lot that she can't say, as - and I'm guessing again - I think that lawyers will be involved.

Very very expensive lawyers no doubt!

I have been reading the UKRI webpages on research using online data, including social media.

The most obvious point is that it says that researchers need to abide by the regulations set by the data producers. As has been said many times, MN’s terms and conditions are very clear that data scraping is not allowed. So I would consider the UKRI pretty authoritative on what is or is not ethical, and that is a clear stumbling block for Eden. MN have asked for the dataset to be deleted; Aston have refused.

This leads to a fundamental ethical problem, that users are not aware how their data is being used because they assume such use (data scraping) is prohibited by the terms and conditions. Therefore it is not possible to argue that users consent (because they do not know). The issue of identifiably is not relevant yet, because the research does not get past the issue of consent.

There is also the question about what constitutes privacy in a forum such as MN. It seems to me recognised in writing about internet research that traditional understandings of public space do not hold in social media research - that is to say, that forum and social media is used by people who have a reasonable expectation of privacy in so far as their words will not be used for research but simply read by other users of that forum or of their social media. I think this interlinks with the consent piece - so people write for other users of MN and as such, consent for their posts to be read in this context (as well as being used within MN’s terms and conditions re copyright).

The other key problem seems to me - as others have said - is that the forum posts being used cover children and situations about children, and indeed other vulnerable groups (so additional ethical issues), and that by triangulating posts from published quotes, users may indeed be identifiable to those who know them. There is no way of guaranteeing this would not happen. I identified the mum of a friend of my DD as a poster on here by a phrase she said her son used about an exam. Knowing that anecdote, my DD would identify me on here. That’s a banal example, but it makes clear the issue.

I know I am only saying what has already been said, but what little I have read of the ethics form suggests that none of the complexities of this have been properly considered.

Everything posters find in various places to do with data online points to the fact that Aston University are not being ethical, aren't doing things properly and are morally corrupt.

So why do Aston University think they can just steal women's words and get away with it?

Aston University have an Ethics board, as we know, I've nrtff so don't know if this has been linked here before

https://www.aston.ac.uk/research/integrity-ethics/ethics/faqs

This page has details for three Ethics head honchos

https://www.aston.ac.uk/research/integrity-ethics

Honestly, it's a bit of a rabbit hole, there's pages and pages. If it was more than lip service I don't understand why they seem to have been caught on the hop.

There's also this

https://www.aston.ac.uk/research/integrity-ethics/research-integrity-policy

Which states

Any breach of this Policy will be addressed in accordance with the Research Misconduct Policy. A serious breach may amount to gross misconduct and could therefore result in summary dismissal.

Chinny reckon?

I believe a lot of people won’t click the thread as won’t understand the corpus meaning, I mean theres a lot to take in & I can imagine some people being confused by the scraping stuff, I think generally a lot of people won’t click on the feminism threads as can’t be arsed with the politics - I’m not having a pop about that btw I’m gender critical & have lurked here for years to keep me up to date with the latest fuckery. These are just my thoughts, things can move quickly & get forgotten about, I felt like that is maybe what some are hoping will happen. Like others have said a general announcement but I get it as like I previously said mumsnet is in a catch 22 situation as it would most likely drive people away from the site & I do think that this is the end goal to close down one of the biggest platforms that allows women to speak. Yes I should think lawyers are currently very busy, well I should hope they are.

I agree that MN will need to do a site wide announcement at some point (probably an email to all current registered members as well as a forum post) but probably not until this is resolved, and it’s my impression that lawyer-y discussions are very much ongoing.

And if Mumsnet fail to stop this research project going ahead, I suspect we data ‘subjects’ will then take up the baton.

I’m quite up for gatecrashing a AIFL event wearing a gerbils t shirt, like the lesbians who abseiled into parliament (only perhaps without the abseiling).

(for the record, I would want the event to be one that features the head of the department, rather than the PhD candidate)

Yeah... I'm there for the gerbil t shirt bit, the absailing... You're on your own there!

If someone will do the ropes for me I don't mind a bit of abseiling.

Prefer no abseiling, no supergluing bits to the furniture pls. Could we possibly manage a merkin wave?

Like a Mexican wave, only ....

Merkins and merkin bunting at the ready so that we can follow in the footsteps of EM!

That's going to be one hell of a wave!

If only Aston were scraping the posts by this OP

DSC

I suspect their scraping programs/computers/software might implode.

That poster deffo has some idiosyncratic syntax!

Also, updated photo ID ready for the General Election, just wanted to keep Aston up to date for GDPR reasons:

I realise things have moved on but I was musing this morning and wondered how this is even a thesis proposition.

I'm not an academic but have worked in HE and most theses I've seen are like War & Peace. I can just about see how this could be an undergraduate dissertation but a PhD thesis?

Considering she's already come to her conclusion (of course she's going to conclude MN has become "more transphobic") she's going to have to do an awful lot of padding to get the word count.

I suspect a lot of that padding will be direct quotes from individual posters. I'm not sure of the implications of that.