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Mumsnet Corpus

1000 replies

TokyoBouncyBall · 19/04/2024 11:36

Not a TAAT, but a bit of googling as a result of a now deleted thread has led me to this:

https://fold.aston.ac.uk/handle/123456789/18

I note it says that the License is uncertain. Can you confirm that you have given permission for posts to be used in this way, or is there something that Aston might like to look into?

I note it says Users who wish to access this dataset must make a detailed application to FoLD and the researcher, as well as potentially gain additional agreement from an external organisation before they can be approved for access.

Given one of the uses it is being put to, I think it is a bit dubious to say the least.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 25/04/2024 20:13

Sandbox is a term of art used in computing, to mean an environment used for dry-runs, tests, and generally checking that techniques work before using them live. That's why the scrapists Piotr and Krzyztof used the term in their seminar presentation.

The problem isn't their choice of wording but their decision to steal this data in violation of Mumsnet ToS and without the consent of Mumsnet as data controller nor us as data subjects.

DrBlackbird · 25/04/2024 20:17

DogsAkimbo · 25/04/2024 19:16

Yes. I think he’s far from alone as well in his (type of) action. I still don’t believe that someone didn’t recognise him from the CCTV either, it disgusts me.

Especially in this time and era, I’m shocked he was never identified. Was he someone deemed beyond justice such as a fellow policeman?

BIWI · 25/04/2024 20:17

The problem isn't their choice of wording but their decision to steal this data in violation of Mumsnet ToS and without the consent of Mumsnet as data controller nor us as data subjects

Yes I realise that, and I'm sorry if my post/views have muddied the waters here.

DogsAkimbo · 25/04/2024 20:17

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 25/04/2024 20:13

Sandbox is a term of art used in computing, to mean an environment used for dry-runs, tests, and generally checking that techniques work before using them live. That's why the scrapists Piotr and Krzyztof used the term in their seminar presentation.

The problem isn't their choice of wording but their decision to steal this data in violation of Mumsnet ToS and without the consent of Mumsnet as data controller nor us as data subjects.

Yes, I have also had Sandbox used in technology terms to mean a safe place to mess about in without disturbing either production or pristine test environments. It doesn’t have a great feel to it when used, presumably, as a term meaning to delve around in unsuspecting people’s data.

DogsAkimbo · 25/04/2024 20:19

DrBlackbird · 25/04/2024 20:17

Especially in this time and era, I’m shocked he was never identified. Was he someone deemed beyond justice such as a fellow policeman?

It certainly raises the question, doesn’t it, or at least acquaintances that decided they didn’t want to name him.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 25/04/2024 20:20

DogsAkimbo · 25/04/2024 20:17

Yes, I have also had Sandbox used in technology terms to mean a safe place to mess about in without disturbing either production or pristine test environments. It doesn’t have a great feel to it when used, presumably, as a term meaning to delve around in unsuspecting people’s data.

Yes. The lack of "great feel" is because the data is stolen.

We wouldn't be irked by it if they were using the Decameron.

DogsAkimbo · 25/04/2024 20:21

NitroNine · 25/04/2024 20:01

@DogsAkimbo @DrBlackbird

Does this mean we’re playing [virtual?] Patriarchy Chicken with the buckeejits at Ashton 🤔

They think MN[HQ] are going to move out of their way & let them carry on with their dodgy antics, because they’re used to just barrelling along as they wish. Of course female humans should move out of their Very Important way, even if they’re pushing a pram/in a wheelchair/on crutches/with their guide dog/a nonagenarian pootling along with a zimmer frame/a toddler weebling unsteadily along on reins/a teenager with a school bag that looks as if they’re off to do a D of E exploration, their PE kit, & a violin; while the Very Important Male strides along encumbered only by their sense of entitlement.

In this virtual game, for all there are lots of women with [multiple] vulnerabilities, we’re walking together & not at all inclined to let these fools trample us. I think casually & constantly underestimating women is about to end badly for them & I am very much here for it.

(Re: the jogger; I have no doubt but that several people have chosen to protect him, which is revolting.)

Yes, entirely that! I am so here for this game of digital patriarchal chicken. We ride the digital pavements at dawn!

TokyoBouncyBall · 25/04/2024 20:44

The Audrey Ludwig tweet now has 52k views and has been retweeted by a data specialist at posh lawyers Mishcon de Reya.

OP posts:
AstonVillains · 25/04/2024 20:53

TokyoBouncyBall · 25/04/2024 20:44

The Audrey Ludwig tweet now has 52k views and has been retweeted by a data specialist at posh lawyers Mishcon de Reya.

Time to get the popcorn out?

PerkingFaintly · 25/04/2024 21:04

AstonVillains · 25/04/2024 20:53

Time to get the popcorn out?

Woah, Mishcon de Reya?

We're gonna need considerably bigger buckets.🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿

DogsAkimbo · 25/04/2024 21:09

We definitely need popcorn, I’m thinking maybe a whole sandbox of it!!

DogsAkimbo · 25/04/2024 21:33

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 25/04/2024 20:20

Yes. The lack of "great feel" is because the data is stolen.

We wouldn't be irked by it if they were using the Decameron.

Yeah, the sadly familiar feeling for women of boundaries crossed and consent not sought.

ArabellaScott · 25/04/2024 21:42

NitroNine · 25/04/2024 20:01

@DogsAkimbo @DrBlackbird

Does this mean we’re playing [virtual?] Patriarchy Chicken with the buckeejits at Ashton 🤔

They think MN[HQ] are going to move out of their way & let them carry on with their dodgy antics, because they’re used to just barrelling along as they wish. Of course female humans should move out of their Very Important way, even if they’re pushing a pram/in a wheelchair/on crutches/with their guide dog/a nonagenarian pootling along with a zimmer frame/a toddler weebling unsteadily along on reins/a teenager with a school bag that looks as if they’re off to do a D of E exploration, their PE kit, & a violin; while the Very Important Male strides along encumbered only by their sense of entitlement.

In this virtual game, for all there are lots of women with [multiple] vulnerabilities, we’re walking together & not at all inclined to let these fools trample us. I think casually & constantly underestimating women is about to end badly for them & I am very much here for it.

(Re: the jogger; I have no doubt but that several people have chosen to protect him, which is revolting.)

That would be a rather foolhardy game to play.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/04/2024 21:42

As people have said, this issue is bigger than Aston and Mumsnet.

Boiledbeetle · 25/04/2024 21:48

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/04/2024 21:42

As people have said, this issue is bigger than Aston and Mumsnet.

Julia Roberts Shopping GIF by SundanceTV

This may not be as easy to sweep under the carpet as Aston hoped it would be!

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 25/04/2024 21:54

I've been reading the Mumsnet terms of use.

Aston have definitely breached MN's copyright as they did not ask permission to scrape the data and it is clear in terms of use that permission is required for any use.

Their use of MN data also breaches the privacy policy, which is part of MN data protection under terms of use. I have copied part of this below.

"Our aims and duty of care

We recognise our duty of care with regards to your data and will always endeavour to do the right thing with the personal data you choose to share with us, including: not compromising your anonymity; protecting your privacy; storing your data securely and giving you control over your own data.
Our mission at Mumsnet is to help make parents’ lives easier. We believe that securing your data, preserving your anonymity, protecting your privacy, and giving you control over your data are an important aspect of that mission."

Aston have clearly breached these terms unbeknownst to MN, who I don't blame at all but who I hope, in the interests of their users, will pursue very robust legal remedies including reporting to ICO - any words the Vice Chancellor might want to say simply do not cut it. I find it rather breathtakingly arrogant what he's said so far.

MNHQ is very good at deleting posts or threads where users may be vulnerable or at risk - i.e. giving users control over their own data and protecting privacy - which is very much in line with this privacy policy. I have seen this several times, most notably on threads about serious abuse (which have stayed with me, some of it was utterly horrific). It's one of the great things about MNHQ and what makes this site feel like a community - we all look out for each other and MNHQ is very responsive to users raising safety concerns or asking for deletion of posts.

Aston could well have data scraped before certain sensitive data was deleted - so may well hold very sensitive information that MN themselves have now deleted permanently due to its sensitivity and / or risk to a vulnerable user. Since MN was not informed of the data scraping, there is no way Aston can know which data MN has deleted from their scraped data due to direct request from posters or due to serious safety / privacy concerns.

Of course we don't know when the data scraping was done, nor how often. Which is one of many questions that need an answer.

There is no way in hell this is legal under GDPR. I think it's also illegal under GDPR and DPA 2018 that in general our data was used for a different purpose than we all intended, was listed under MN terms of use, or we could possible envisage. Having scraped, using that data for a range of different research projects, none of which got consent from MN or MN users also illegal for the same reason, IMO. But holding data that MN themselves have deleted as they have judged it is inconsistent with data protection / their privacy policy is a whole other level of illegal. I'm hoping the ICO fine Aston a very very large sum of money at the very least.

Encyclopediaofnonsense · 25/04/2024 21:56

If Aston are rightly held to account for this the precedent it sets will be huge.

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 25/04/2024 21:56

TokyoBouncyBall · 25/04/2024 20:44

The Audrey Ludwig tweet now has 52k views and has been retweeted by a data specialist at posh lawyers Mishcon de Reya.

Good.

AstonVillains · 25/04/2024 22:20

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already (too many posts for my brain) but Mishcon de Reya fella is musing on A5(1)(a) of GDPR.
https://twitter.com/jonbainesdata/status/1783554331813216419

https://twitter.com/jonbainesdata/status/1783554331813216419

ArabellaScott · 25/04/2024 22:21

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 25/04/2024 21:56

Good.

We have been politely and patiently waiting for a solid response. We haven't even started making a fuss yet.

BlackCatsAreBrilliant · 25/04/2024 22:21

When I was a MN newbie, I seem to recall that chat threads had a finite life before they were automatically deleted (90 days?)

I don't know when chat changed to its current, kept forever format. But if Aston scrapes happened before that change, then Aston could have a lot of data MN no longer hold.

SoupDragonsFriend · 25/04/2024 22:32

Also, MN sometimes decide themselves, with no warning, to delete individual posts when they have stepped over whatever the current boundaries are. And sometimes they delete whole threads that are deemed to be too sensitive or too 'outing'. That data may have been scraped before MN deleted it.

ArsetonUniversity · 25/04/2024 22:45

And let's not forget the 30 days only chat...

@SoupDragonsFriend what happened, did you lose your new title for using illegally scraped data in your Bagpuss references by any chance?

Encyclopediaofnonsense · 25/04/2024 22:55

AstonVillains · 25/04/2024 22:20

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already (too many posts for my brain) but Mishcon de Reya fella is musing on A5(1)(a) of GDPR.
https://twitter.com/jonbainesdata/status/1783554331813216419

Can we have a separate thread for twix screenshots for those of us not on the platform please?

RedToothBrush · 25/04/2024 23:01

AstonVillains · 25/04/2024 20:53

Time to get the popcorn out?

Bahhahaaaa.

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