Conflict in the Middle East: Can we stop the copy/paste spamming, please?

[Pizdietz]

Thread after thread after thread in the "Conflict in the Middle East" board is just post after post after post of someone copy/pasting a "newsflash" from their X/Insta feed. For example, the one on "Documenting Israeli army racism and torture" kicks off with no fewer than EIGHT copy/pastes from the same poster, and continues in the same vein.

This kind of spamming is not discussion or intelligent debate, and has reduced the quality of threads to the point where there is no point commenting.

Would it be possible to introduce a rule on that board, where it's fine to share a news link but only if the poster explains what is new and interesting about it, apart from "Look what monsters Israel are"? And could there be a limit on repeated copy/pastes? Or is there another way round this, e.g. should we report these as spam?

It's quite clear that some of the links haven't even been read by the poster themselves. False information has repeatedly been shared, which is potentially dangerous in a war that is also fought with propaganda.

I would also like to see it made unacceptable to deny the atrocities of 7 October. These are repeatedly dismissed as Israeli lies, when there is clear evidence to the contrary, sadly. It's not just a matter of opinion, and it's outrageous that posters are taking this approach.

Because I've seen the trolling, frankly, and I'm also not an expert on the Israel-Palestine conflict. I will start a thread if I feel I want go, in the meantime I appreciate the intelligent threads discussion from some posters and will express my opinions accordingly.

@ProvincialLady1 I take your point about certain threads should be left alone, in theory. But as a free forum, this is going to happen. But yes from an ethical perspective I believe some threads are better left for certain voices to speak without interruption to a point. That said.... the posters posting, often are doing so from a place where their opposing view threads have been attempted to be derailed, multiple times, with insults from pro-Israel posters (that are often deleted due to their inflammatory nature). I've seen racist Islamophobic comments, Nakba denial, denial of Israeli govt atrocities, failure to empathise with Palestinian children as well as personal insults. All on threads designed to mourn Palestinian victims. So it definitely works both ways. Usually the same old posters doing it as well.

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Oh my goodness @PurpleChrayne - I’m so sorry to hear this. Your poor husband and daughter. Very upsetting. I hope they are ok.

Its clear from the conflict in the ME board on MN- particularly with the problem that the OP is pointing to with this thread - that there are plenty of very uneducated people in the world who do not understand the Middle East, and do not get the Israel-Palestine conflict at all. It’s quite alarming really.

The current plight of Palestinians is the outcome of a tragic conflict between two peoples. Both are at fault in one way or another. But people will insist on demonising one side and absolving the other of all responsibility which is monstrous considering their history of violence, initiating wars, their faulty and corrupt leadership and so on. When will the anti-Israel rabble learn that when you seek to end a conflict by focusing on only one party to that conflict, you don’t end it…you simply perpetuate it.

And no, the “we’re not anti-Israel, we’re just anti-Zionism” argument does not wash! Anti-Zionism is Antisemitism. Because you’re denying Jews the right to their one and only collective home in a world of 56 Islamic nations, and 159 where Christians form the majority. Throughout the centuries of exile and dispersion Jews lived on many different continents (because remember, they had their land taken from them by empire after empire), and for that reason, Israel has remained a focus of their prayers and the only place where they have been able to do what every other nation takes for granted - to construct their own society in the light of their own ideals.

Too many people that contribute to this board subscribe to the concept of black and white narratives. This is stifling the debate and cheapens the discussion. I consider the two things to be propaganda:

• Rushing to immediately blame Israel for everything
• Rushing to defend Israel for everything

The world is not black and white. There are very, very few instances in history where one party is completely in the right and another party is completely in the wrong. It’s probably easier and more comforting to believe that one party is the bad guy and another is the good guy, but the real world rarely works like that, if ever.
I personally think it’s really important to take a step back to analyze the news coming out of Israel-Palestine — particularly considering so much of what comes out of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank is censored —* *before rushing to blame either party. Oftentimes, there’s more than meets the eye.

Fair enough. I don't pretend to be a psychologist. But am allowed to express my view, based on what I experienced of people during the COVID crisis. There was a similar dogmatic ferocity from friends and colleagues who could not cope with a confusing situation and preferred to see things in black and white.

Well, yes, it was a comment that got deleted (and then reinstated, thank you MN).

Thank you for saying I'm "welcome on any thread." Very gracious of you 😊

Unlike some posters visible here (ahem!), I don't pretend to "own" threads, or shut down voices.

What I do find odd is being tracked down onto a completely different forum, and having my post completely distorted, taken out of context and reported to MN as malicious. (The person reporting it clearly had no place on that particular forum, for reasons I won't advertise here as I don't want to invite more trolling onto it.) This strikes me as, at the very least, "not in the spirit of Mumsnet."

It's odd, I've had years on here without ever being deleted and all of a sudden it seems to be a massive pile-on. I'm sure I'm not the only one to have experienced this and felt bewildered by it.

I can't speak to the encounter you're discussing above, but I'm sure MN aren't deleting things without good reason @Pizdietz , maybe if you're having a lot of comments deleted, you will want to reflect on why they are being deleted, and why your content is deemed to break forum rules? This might help you avoid it happening in future.

Yes!

Yes, I have reflected on it, and it's why I generally don't bother posting on the threads any more.

It goes like this:

(1) The usual posters start a thread, or spam one, with endless "newflashes" - often from dodgy sources, sometimes misleading and apparently unread even by the poster

(2) Someone takes the bait and tries to reason with them

(3) That person comes under direct attack and is accused of "derailing" / devaluing Palestinian lives / blindly supporting a fascist regime

(4) Their reasoning also comes under attack, usually by dismissing everything as Israeli propaganda (incuding, sickeningly, the events of 7 Oct)

(5) In total exasperation, they respond in a similar vein. Their post is then reported for being "goady" and off they pop.

I've had my posts twisted beyond recognition in deletions and have lost the energy to bother querying it. I'm sure I'm not the only one to find this apparently systematic control of the Conflict board rather concerning.

Oh, and by the way, your post quoted here could certainly be considered "goady" if I took it upon myself to be offended.

“Well, yes, it was a comment that got deleted (and then reinstated, thank you MN).”

your comment from the email I got when i reported it and your comment today not reinstated.

it’s fine if you think because you were not directing your comments at anyone … then I can also say omg a group of mn that support xyz are mentally ill

btw many of us are aware about that thread. We respect it and don’t take part on it nor troll it. There are really respectful comments in it and some people have given their personal experience and how this is affecting them.

some other comments are real attacks (there is even names of mn mentioned) at other mn that don’t agree with your opinion and how boring they’re.

@Pizdietz that happens sometimes, in both directions. That said I've seen plenty of horrific racism, personal attacks, puerile insults, propaganda and worse posted by pro-Israeli posters coming onto the pro-Palestine threads. A lot of the comments seem to be there just to try to rile up the posters, playground style. It's tedious and no wonder people are asking for them to be deleted. Certain posters have a particular attack pattern, coming on multiple times a day to do the same old provoking or gaslighting. We are fed up with it.

Maybe they get deleted but I haven't seem any TAATs on the middle east conflict board.

But what is wrong with me saying that? I meant it perfectly sincerely, and not actually as an insult, more a way of rationalising what's going on here. A few posts later, I explained that I felt it could be an anxiety disorder.

I do find it unhealthy that you have tracked my posts despite a name change, and that you continue to misconstrue everything I say.

How rare is that kind of thread compared to the anti Israel threads?
The OP is making a polite request.
I also think it's wrong for you to
reference her presence elsewhere on the site.

I didn’t know it was you. You said it today in another comment that you were that poster.

It is this kind of personal hostility and "hunting" that makes these threads a very scary place.

Yes, in another comment on a separate board where you don't really belong (however much it is "open to anyone") and where your presence is presumably not in good faith.

It's poor show to stalk posters across other boards. Why would anyone do that? Not sure other boards approve either.

I'd like to point out your OP - you are also "hunting" by trying to shut down the thread mentioned in your OP using a different tactic to those already tried elsewhere? How can you not see the irony here.

“where you don't really belong “
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@ssd they need go be verified. The amount of very antisemitic accounts and dodgy twitter (x) I have seen if off the scale. Quoted as fact.

On behalf of Jewish mumsnetters (not being Jewish myself), I was deeply distressed by one thread that is insanely antisemitic. I did my best to close it down, but failed. It was worth a try, though, I'm not ashamed of having attempted it.

You know perfectly well what I mean by this, and you know why I'm not spelling it out (as mentioned before, I don't want to open the gate to trolls).

The irony is it's done by the very same people complaining about censorship.
No wonder they aren't in favour of it!

I can guarantee your fantastic post reflects every single one of the posters' (such as the OP's) approach to this conflict.
Bravo.