Frustrated that people complaining are getting threads deleted

[MaggieFS]

To be clear, I am not talking about any threads relating to the situation in Gaza or Israel.

Twice in recent days, threads which I have been on have been deleted, by the looks of it because posters who didn't like one point of view have shouted that posters are disableist or racist. They aren't engaging in the debate, they aren't expanding why posts are (if indeed they are, IMHO they haven't been), they aren't educating anyone. They are just hijacking's threads.

Does anyone else feel as if topics are being stifled? Mumsnet has a lot of articulate posters able to offer insightful and educational contributions, from various points of view (with which they don't necessarily agree). It just feels like the balance is a bit off at the moment.

Yes, I have abandoned the Israel situation threads for that reason. What I think is going on with many of the commenters who accuse others of "ableism" though is that people are lobbing a nuclear word in order to silence others. It derails a thread when people can throw around harsh and inaccurate accusations.

Because at the moment ChatGPT is likely to be way less accurate than humans? Plus if people want to talk to an AI they’d do that themselves, not via MN?

Because I come here to have discussions with other human beings. Why on earth would I want to have a conversation with a computer program?

posters who didn't like one point of view have shouted that posters are disableist or racist

Really? Just one point of view and MN have deleted?

You'll be alright, there are loads of racist and/or disablist past posts/threads for you to read through and soothe yourself with

because the poster would be answering the original creator of the thread with the answers that they request , and factual answers do not usually require discussion of i believe x country had x history's. If the facts are facts and history is history ?

Yes i apologise i didn't see this is posted in site stuff.

I was wondering what happened to the thread about the lady who was due a CS and husband announced that he was leaving 2 days beforehand.

This, 100%
I am sick of seeing threads which start "Me (F32) and my partner (M36)............"

They're so obviously ChatGPT bullshit and I don't know why anyone engages with them.

Both of those were trolls.

@DragonFly98, evidence?

Agree. I stopped opening any threads about SEN/autistic children because there was always so much ableism and pure ignorance.

I've had threads deleted lately and Im definitely not a troll. I've dropped trying to discuss any issues that others seem to be able to freely .

This is a site primarily to support parents and has a significant community of parents of disabled children who are already subject to widespread prejudice and stigma, endemic unlawful behaviour by state bodies, on top of dealing with their children's needs. They use this site to gain support and help, and in this context, it seems quite reasonable for MN to take seriously the need to protect them from having to run a gauntlet of hatred and discrimination, particularly where this involves personally defamatory accusations against individuals. It would appear similarly reasonable for MN to not wish to see their platform being used to stoke-up tensions between non disabled and disabled groups of parents.

The stress of caring for a disabled child is so significant that it produces long term physical and mental ill health. A significant part of this is the harm caused by the experience of social stigma and social oppropriums directed towards disabled children and their families. This is well evidenced, see for instance: https://www.pediatricnursing.org/article/S0882-5963(20)30591-1/pdf

For those who find villifyng disabled children or their families enjoyable, there are no doubt plenty of other places to go on the web.

One was about how to deal with an autistic kid next door who was being loud--the kind of issue that affects many people one way or another and that should be aired.

I feel this thread was rightly deleted. I commented on it, but it wasn't a positive thread, it felt like it was intended to stir division.

Was it a PBP?

I think the word ‘ableist’ is unhelpful, in that it shuts down discussion and shames the offender without explaining why the comment was problematic.

Saying something that points out the experience of disabled people and their carers would be more helpful, imo, as it challenges the misperceptions of the original comments.

‘Ableist’ accusations, no matter how justified, leave the recipient feeling as though they are unheard and no one cares rather than showing them that they are heard but their need isn’t as great as someone else’s/they are just wrong.

But if the OP wanted an answer from AI they could get that themselves.

ChatGPT definitely gets facts wrong anyway. And, as anyone who has studied it beyond primary school should know, history is always open to interpretation beyond very, very basic details.

One thing I’ve noticed increasingly is weird use of quote marks & I’ve been wondering if that’s a sign of ChatGPT.

How do you feel about the word racist?

The same way. Where racism or ableism is not obvious to the perpetrator, labelling it doesn’t actually achieve anything much.
It’s the same with sexism.

There are bigots who are well aware of their own attitudes who won’t change whatever you say. They may be calling names or insisting on prefectural treatment for themselves.

There are the vast majority, who simply don’t understand the difference between being temporarily restricted because of a pram and being a wheelchair user, for example. Perhaps they don’t know how to request someone speak more clearly and slowly so they can process an accent and just demand a ‘British’ carer. People who only see the impact of an employee pregnancy on the business.

The latter won’t understand if you label them ‘-ist’. They will gradually change if the impact of their attitude on the person concerned is pointed out.

It’s all our responsibility to point it out, not just the person directly affected. It’s much more helpful to explain why one person’s ‘just being interested’ is another person’s micro aggression and experienced as othering.

It's a regular troll. They'll be back in a week or so and you can give your advice all over again.

Hi there @MaggieFS . Without knowing exactly which threads you're talking about, it's a bit difficult to say, so drop us a line if you like - just hit the report button on your post here and let us know which the threads were and we might be able to fill you in a bit more. Please be assured though, that we aren't swayed by people reporting threads - we make moderating decisions only on our talk guidelines.

Thanks @HebeMumsnet much appreciated.

I guess the most helpful thing would be to know which talk guidelines have been breached in a thread deletion message? I might be totally wrong in my reading of the situation, so I don't know. I'll have a think of a couple of examples and report/ ask for more info as you say.

I do think that being more specific about which TG have been breached is a good idea - across the board - actually.

All too often posters don't seen to know what the TG are, or even where to find them to read! Being more specific in a deletion message would help here. (And it should be easy for MNHQ to implement, surely - just a tick box of the one(s) that have been breached?)