"boomer" thread

[Maireas]

You've hidden this evening's offensive, ageist thread, stereotyping "boomers". Will this be deleted? Can we have a robust response to ageism on MN?

When people look back on the next 50 years the people born in he 90s onwards " will have a lot to answer for". It's just not clear what that is yet.

And younger people then will say to you

But didn't you campaign for this?
Or didn't you campaign for that?

Because they then will have perfect hindsight like you. 👍🏻

Or did you just sit back and enjoy the low tax, low cost environment and the infrastructure the generations before you built that wasn't even being adequately maintained?

What absolute cliched arse.

I was bringing up my baby millennials and didn't realise I was sitting back and enjoying blah blah blah

You know working, paying bills, just ordinary stuff.

• despite most of the problems being entirely foreseeable and indeed foreseen - have left a catastrophic mess for those younger than them, is depressing and disingenuous and t

Catastrophic Messes 20th C

Ist World War
Flu Pandemic
Great Depression
2nd World War

etc etc. you get the gist

There a pretty much shit throughout history.

But since it is all so foreseeable why aren't you fixing it???
You know campaigning and shit

You are literally talking in cliches.

I think the difference is that unlike many here, I will happily take justified criticism. I will hold my hands up and say sorry: I made a mistake. Because we are all human and we make mistakes, it's inherent in the human condition. I'm not a perfect person or a perfect parent and I don't do everything right and if I've messed something up either in terms of not doing what I should to contribute to wider society or within my own family, I will accept that and am apologetic about it and try to learn from it. What is very interesting is how defensive the majority of the posts here are, the complete unwillingless to accept even well established economic facts, the deflection, whataboutery, almost fury at any critical comments about a cohort they belong to even though it's been reiterated many times that of course there will be huge variation within it. Even recent posts dismissing facts and data and calling me an "AI bot" for stating them and asserting that "lived experience" (i.e. anecdotes) are superior.

Many posts are very blinkered, arrogant, selectively engaging only on what they wish to discuss and ignoring the rest; unfortunately very reminiscent of attempting any type of rational discussion with my parents, so ironically the thread has mostly seemed to provide yet more evidence to bear out the so-called "stereotypes" in terms of the generational attitudes that research has described.

👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻

Even recent posts dismissing facts and data and calling me an "AI bot" for stating them and asserting that "lived experience" (i.e. anecdotes) are superior.

Neither is 'superior' - but neither is definitive.
And you are quoting "data" as if it IS definitive.

I read your posts about

"did you campaign for this or that ?"

And want to know what you are campaigning for?

I want to know what problems you see as foreseeable that haven't happened yet?

I want you to acknowledge the benefits of hindsight.

I also want to hear your kids in years to come because what you've just said about your parents - t'was ever thus. 😁

I find you stubborn and cliched as you find me defensive and angry.

And no I don't think you have any intention of learning from anything. You have your data.

Many posts are very blinkered, arrogant, selectively engaging only on what they wish to discuss and ignoring the rest; unfortunately very reminiscent of attempting any type of rational discussion with my parents, so ironically the thread has mostly seemed to provide yet more evidence to bear out the so-called "stereotypes" in terms of the generational attitudes that research has described.m

Likewise tbh.

In fact in the face of the absolute lectures you have churned out on here

@WarOnTheSlugs let's face it how can another poster do anything but pick out what they want to discuss?

I'm afraid you do come over in a very relentless, steam rolling way. You do not really engage with other posters. You've not acknowledged my points in return.

You do unfortunately sound very AI. I'm sorry but that is how you are coming across.

You have all the criticisms, a literal list of things a Boomer should have done, but it makes me wonder what are you doing? Now. For all the foreseeable problems?

You make NO acknowledgment of why someone would be angry or defensive or upset by what you say. That level of data seems to have passed you by.

And if you reduce people to data and stats , yes , you are stereotyping them. You know, like your parents.

I have been campaigning for better climate policies since I was a child. I protested vehemently against the EU exit. I have pushed for establishing better business and tax policies, better company regulation, better economic policies that will increase productivity because that is the only way to raise living standards sustainably. I've spent most of my working life dedicated to improving these things and clearing up the mess after the financial crisis.

I have also done what I can to push for better support for disabled people to be accommodated by employers, including some work with the Equalities Office on this. Trying to shift the focus from only the obvious, visible differences like race and sex to include also consideration of the huge deficit in employment opportunities for those from disadvantaged backgrounds or those who are disabled.

I've been a trustee for various charities and do what I can through that to provide opportunities to disadvantaged young people. I have mentored young people before, run work experience programmes recruiting from disadvantaged areas, taught sessions on economics as well. I have also done charity work through various international organisations but I think the small, local ones have more impact generally.

I write to my MP and try to press for change on issues that I believe are the most important for the future of my children, rather than focusing on those that would benefit me most right now.

I'm sure it's not enough, and I would like to do more. As a lone parent to two children with disabilities, I have limited capacity right now to take on extra things outside of the essentials but I certainly try where I can. I hope to do far more in the future when I'm stretched less thinly.

I am sure my children will have plenty of criticism of me, as children do. That is life.

I'm not really sure how any of this is relevant though because again, a generational analysis of economic and social trends is not about specific individuals.

Goodness if they insult you after this they really will look petulant

I'm not really sure how any of this is relevant though because again, a generational analysis of economic and social trends is not about specific individuals.

I wonder how any of it is relevant too,
but it is you that started in with a list of did you campaign for this and did you campaign for that.

If you did then you're not personally to blame.

You also ⬆️

And no a generational analysis of economic trends is NOT about individuals except that you 100% link it to someone when you say BOOMER.

You're very lighthearted about your children's potential criticisms of you ( as they do ! ) but a lot more focused on your criticism of your parents who you see as irrational and defensive and representative of an entire age group.

Your lack of insight is stunning.

The totally foreseeable problems now are:

Very unstable geopolitics

Economic decline in democratic countries (exacerbated in our case by the economic mismanagement we've been discussing...)

Likelihood of further global pandemics

Climate change will result in global food and energy shortages and population movements on a scale never seen before. Therefore, energy and food security should be top of any Government's agenda. And water security. Absurd to be in a country with so much rainfall that can't manage its water system appropriately. Large parts of the UK will also become subject to flooding far more regularly and nothing significant is being done about this.

The pace of change in technology will be a paradigm shift. Many current jobs will become obsolete, and these changes will happen faster than in previous industrial revolutions. How this is managed without civil unrest, new social systems put in place to cope, education adapted to be appropriate, etc, is a huge challenge. AI also poses a huge risk in terms of misuse by unfriendly regimes in terms of hacking and warfare. Or simply fuckup: not understanding the consequences of something done until too late.

We also have a situation where birth rates in every country outside sub-saharan Africa are falling off a cliff so there will be a massive population shortfall which is incredibly hard to reverse once the trend has set in. More family-friendly policies are urgently required to avert this, as it won't be possible to plug the gap with skilled immigration as we do currently.

Those are the medium to long-term problems Governments need to be solving i.e. putting plans in place for now. Shorter-term they need to be fixing the UK infrastructure, tax system, education funding, healthcare and pensions model as discussed earlier. All of that should have been done 30 years back but is now urgent.

Frankly I don't see that we have a single politician on either side of the HOC up to the job, proposing any policies that are going to make any significant difference to the UK outlook, sadly.

Frankly I don't see that we have a single politician on either side of the HOC up to the job, proposing any policies that are going to make any significant difference to the UK outlook, sadly.

But what are you DOING about it @WarOnTheSlugs ?

I wonder how any of it is relevant too, but it is you that started in with a list of did you campaign for this and did you campaign for that.

It was a response to you specifically asking me what I campaign for and work to change.

So that when your kids say " it's your fault"
what are you going to say?

Maybe read my post where I described what I have been doing about it?

It was a response to you specifically asking me what I campaign for and work to change.

No iI asked because of this

*WarOnTheSlugs
Did you campaign to get any of the necessary policies to prevent the current structural issues that face young people being allowed to escalate to this situation: where taxes are extremely high, public services are abysmal and social mobility barely exists? Did you campaign for change to the state pension ponzi scheme back when it would have been affordable to do so, when the demographic timebomb was already foreseen and well-known? Did you campaign for energy security and food security policies, investment in infrastructure, building of new reservoirs, upgrading of water infrastructure? Did you campaign against the introduction of 9% additional tax for anybody doing higher education? Did you campaign for high taxes so that some could be invested in a fund for the pensions and healthcare and social care that a large cohort with rising life expectancies were known to be going to require?

If you did then you're not personally to blame. *

l @WarOnTheSlugs you will still be held responsible by the data as a generation.

Yes. So I answered you, and told you what things I have campaigned for or spent my career on trying to change to make things better for the future, or done in my free time through charities to try to do so, regarding the issues that I see as critical to the life chances and prospects of my children and other children growing up in the UK now (and elsewhere, to an extent e.g. the stuff of sustainability and climate change).

You know what I do when I see these ageist threads? Sit back and laugh!! When you are young you never believe you will get old, one day the nasty young women on these threads will look back, cringe at their words and understand how it feels to be sidelined as ‘old’.

Yes, indeed. We will. And rightly so.

Your kids , despite your best efforts, will still hold you responsible regardless.
Especially if they take after you.

@WarOnTheSlugs

Yes. So I answered you, and told you what things I have campaigned for or spent my career on trying to change to make things better for the future, or done in my free time through charities to try to do so, regarding the issues that I see as critical to the life chances and prospects of my children and other children growing up in the UK now (and elsewhere, to an extent e.g. the stuff of sustainability and climate change).

And likewise the older generation who have done just that.

Yep. As I said already, of course they will.

Children rebel against their parents. This is part of normal development.

Nobody can raise a child without damaging them in some way, because nobody is perfect. "They fuck you up, your mum and dad..." as Larkin said.

Again, though, you are reducing this down to personal attacks and individuals, when it is about generations, and socio-economic trends over decades and millions of people.