"boomer" thread

[Maireas]

You've hidden this evening's offensive, ageist thread, stereotyping "boomers". Will this be deleted? Can we have a robust response to ageism on MN?

It was that thread I reported an ageist post on, which was quickly acknowledged and deleted.

Can't fault the response there.

Why should anyone be forced to give up their family home? Are we becoming a new communist country, where nobody is allowed to own or keep their own property now ? Should everyone just give up everything they have worked fit to the government and it be shared out? , I mean it worked so well in parts of china!

The dimwits who always trot this out fail to realise that if a government can mandate removal of anything from one sector of the populace, it can do it for another - or everyone. It's called 'be careful of what you wish for, you might get it.'

Clearly the lessons of 'give govt an inch and they'll take a mile' so amply demonstrated 2020-2021 haven't been learned by large numbers of people posting on here. Although they'd probably maintain that it wouldn't apply to them, just other people.

Also, @jeffgoldblum , no suggestion of the under 60s downsizing if they have spare rooms! Anyway. Several of us have shut that nonsense down.

The Brexit thread now has racists on it as well. Apparently all empty properties are being filled with Pakistanis and Filipinos.

It's like Enoch Powell never fucked off and died.

And not all of us are rich either. Some of us worked hard in factories compromising ourselves in favour of 'good money' grafting 60 hour weeks so we could get a mortgage since buying a house is the ultimate goal - having something to leave our children because nobody left us anything.
Now the house I own will probably be used for care home fees which is just as well since my paltry pensions don't cover the bills.
I have worked all of my life and own my own home - so what ! I am still as poor as ever and now because I am old I don't have a voice since 'the young' don't listen anyway. All they do is bitch about my privilege..it's laughable. Oh and I am living in a house that a young family should be living in. How disgusting and antisocial of me.

Oh ffs. I despair.

Well its clear that there is an agenda then !
I'd love to support you on the thread but brexit threads bring out the craziness in some posters!!

And over 60s being 'forced' into one bedroom flats. All the dogwhistle ageists in one place

No response from MN, I see. Clearly they're fine with this.

Hi all.

Thanks for posting. We’ve read through the thread this morning and have given your comments a lot of thought.

We firmly believe that allowing conversations is the best way forward. There are many great posts on this thread that explain how previous generations faced their own unique challenges - If someone is unaware that Baby Boomers fought for them to have the rights they have today then perhaps replying to their post is a good way to enlighten them. Conversely, for every ‘boomer’ post we also see others accusing Millennials of spending all their money on Netflix and avocados. Newer generations are officially poorer than their parents and people should be allowed to discuss why that is and what problems are waiting for society down the line as a consequence.

We’d encourage you to challenge any posts you think are misinformed or just lazy stereotyping. This is a discussion site after all and stifling debate just doesn’t work. In our experience, it only makes things even more polarised. Of course, downright ageism/misogyny (as the two often go hand in hand) isn’t welcome and we’ll remove such posts when reported - and please do bear in mind that we often make difficult decisions based on context, tone, and circumstance.

Thanks.

Has your 'side' won all the elections you've voted in?

I hope my future grandkids don't blame me for the (often tiny shred of a majority) election and referendum outcomes I didn't vote for.

I'm not blaming single individuals. And I agree with a PP that misogynistic, ageist insults like "Karen" are completely unacceptable and should be taken down.

However, we are talking about intergenerational inequality and as a cohort Boomers allowed all of this - which was entirely foreseeable - to happen, with no thought for the impact that would have on their children and grandchildren. Impoverishing future generations and leaving them with insoluble and unaffordable problems, because every area of public service and infrastructure is a mess. It did not have to be this way: in other countries that same generation did things differently and the young adults now do not face such a dire situation.

And it rubs salt into the wound when many of this same generation are all self-righteous and seem incapable of understanding what a mess they made, think they should be provided with a better standard of living than many who work even though they never paid anywhere near enough tax to fund this, and then gaslight younger people telling them they are entitled and that if they just "worked harder" and stopped eating avocados everything would be fine. Despite 15 years now of no real-terms pay or productivity growth.

The people who actually bothered to go out and vote presumably?
IPSOS MORI: turnout in 2019 General Election ranged from 47% among 18 to 24-year‑olds up to 74% among over-65s.
Maybe start there….

The damage we are discussing was done before many of us were able to vote. In many cases, before we were born. And since we have a two party system with both parties committed to maintaining the generational inequality and neither putting forward any policies to address the concerns of younger people that I've set out, there is nobody for them to vote for who would implement the changes required.

Ok @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet .
We'll continue to challenge, as some of us are doing on another thread. No-one on here is stereotyping or blaming millennials in the same way.
I wonder if the term "boomer" could be curbed by warning? It's only ever used in a derogatory way.
The ageism seems rife on so many threads.

No such thing as a "cohort" allowing something to happen. We're not a hive mind.

As a cohort Boomers allowed all of this

Can you explain why as individuals those born in that generation should put up with being held responsible for a situation they didn't facilitate or vote for?

I've never voted Conservative in my life. Take your offensive generalisation and stuff it.

Nobody said you did. And it isn't a Conservative/ Labour issue: neither party has done anything about the issues I raised when in power nor does either have any intention to. And it is not possible to discuss generational inequality without generalising. My post specifically stated that obviously not everybody in that generation fits these generalisations, yet as a cohort they hold true.

Also, on a thread with complaints about personal attacks (which I also think are unacceptable, per my earlier posts) your comment - being rude to someone who disagrees with you - is rather ironic.

I attacked your generalisation, not you personally.

Perhaps you could address this question?

Hate to burst your bubble but the majority voting group in this era wasn't boomers it was the "greatest generation".

Nope, most of those people are now dead. I'm talking about people who were adults and voting in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

The boomers were the primary recipients of the inter generational unemployment and recession triggered by some of the policies.

No, they were not. Sure, the economy had recessions. It also had huge booms and real pay growth. The cohort who are now late 30s have had no real-terms pay growth during their entire working lives.

Yet again, what should be a class based analysis is hidden away by a soundbite variation on identity politics.

Whataboutery. Intergenerational inequalty is a huge issue in the UK, well documented and economically indisputable. Economic facts are not "identity politics". If anything, discussion of class is more like that because most of those generalisations don't apply anymore. And even more ironically, the policies that Boomers voted for have hugely reduced social mobility.

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

The word "boomer" has been found by Ofcom (among others) to be offensive, and inappropriate for a wider audience. The word "millennial" has not. That still shares the same neutral, and non-offensive linguistic label as "baby boomer" etc. (the Cambridge linguistic corpus study is my source- I contributed to it when it was developed)

It's very disingenuous to suggest that for every thread using "boomer" to offend and insult an entire generation, there is an analogous thread doing the same with the word "millennial" as it's a) reductive b) untrue.

There are threads mentioning millennials. Obviously. They are rarely mentioned together with the word itself in a negative, offensive, and inappropriate way. Unlike the word "boomer".

Language matters.

Thank you however for clarifying. Ageist posts and words will have to be self-policed. Fine.

Will those of us who continue to do so continue to have our posts deleted? When we point out on threads, that certain posters have agendas against older people due to their public posting history showing them for what they are?

Using a poster on another thread's almost word for word quote about what apparently "boomers" think about millennials (Netflix and avocados) is a bit weird, but clarifies more than adequately MNHQ's stance on ageism.

It's also factually incorrect to blanketly state "this generation is poorer than previous ones" without providing a non-biased link.

To say I'm disappointed with this response from HQ would be an understatement. Unsurprised, but disappointed nevertheless.

I'd like to hear Justine's view about allowing ageism to stand (or, rather, defending it)

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet disappointing that MNHQ will be leaving up deliberately inflammatory posts like the winter fuel allowance thread, given it was obviously going to go downhill fast. That thread was nothing other than clickbait for ageists with no support by way of MN comment to avoid uncivil discussion.

And avocados, really?

Yes, we have all of this as well.

Plus the wonderful comments about how I'm "damaging my children" by getting their autism diagnosed so they can get support at school, unlike me. Some horrifically ableist comments to us about that. How "we used to just call it personality", and are "narcissistic" to look after our mental health.

Inability of people sitting in a house worth £2.5m largely paid for by property prise increases - not via mortgage - with final salary pensions, to understand why I as a lone parent with a mortgage and two autistic children who need specialist childcare might struggle with money.

All of the nonsense about how hard it was for them when young when they could buy a house as a young couple on one salary, and therefore have no childcare costs, which would now cost over £1m. No student loans to pay. I am actually far more successful career-wise yet can't enjoy anything like that standard of living I'd have had in the same job in the 80s/ 90s.

Laughing about climate change because "oh well, at least we won't have to see the consequences!". Soooo concerned about their grandchildren. 😒 The utter selfishness, knowing I'm working/ caring for children 18 hours per day with no respite ever and not once have they offered to help or even taken them out for a day or babysat them. Yet want to spend 3 hours moaning about their 5th holiday this year when I see them, and how disappointing it was because the hotel stopped issuing its daily newletter and didn't have enough menu variation through the week.

And then always this harking back to how hard it was for them. When they were quite happy to leave me as a vulnerable teenager living alone with no heating or money for food a lot of the time, in a slum, while they went out for expensive meals. Retired at 50 and have sat on their backsides for 20 years now. I think it is the selfishness and tone deafness that really gets to me. They know I'm chronically ill and have even said to me "well, it's not our problem".

And yes I know they're not all like that. Many friends have lovely parents who are kind and decent people and involved grandparents. But a surprising number have ones that are as selfish as my own.

And even this thread’s been hijacked from its original purpose.

But do they use a specific, disparaging and offensive epithet to describe you and all the people in your age range? Only that would be comparable to the use of the “boomer” insult which this thread was set up to discuss.

My family wouldn't be amused if we downsized to a small apartment. We've a post university son age 22 who still has a place here.

Many grandparents have grandchildren they do school runs, sleep overs so mum and dad can have a night out and a lie in. Some take holidays sans offspring because grandparents step up.

We're caring for elderly family, grandchildren, so juggling two generations. I met an 84 year old in Iceland last week. Her food trolley was overflowing, food for grandchildren she cares for and five great grandchildren. She was a widow at 32 five kids. Army husband killed. She needs a rotor cuff surgery but can't spare the recovery time so struggles on .

Care homes are 1k a week, one reason people hang onto a larger home.

Yes.

I'm sorry @WarOnTheSlugs that you have horribly selfish parents but you are hijacking this thread.