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Original poster

URGENT: Radio 5 discussion Friday morning - we need your input

15 replies

Carrie (mumsnet) · 09/12/2004 17:13

Hi All

We've been called back again to Radio 5 - this time for the morning phone in show 9-9.45 to talk about Does spoiling a child do more harm than good? Think there's someone on who says she once spent £200 in a week on her 9 yr old and if you have the money why shouldn't you spoil the child as long as they're not brattish and stay pleasant. I think it's a tricky debate, but would be really interested in your views. I seem to recall a rather heated debate on this not too long ago, so please stay calm (!), but I'd just really appreciate your thoughts on things like - are your kids getting all they want for Xmas? Do you think you can spoil a child? What exactly does spoiling a child mean? I personally don't think treating a child to things they like at Xmas and B'day is horribly wrong - but where do you draw the line in terms of getting them what they want and getting them everything their heart desires to the point where they get present fatigue? Anyway - too many questions, but you get the gist. Your views please - ideally before 11pm tonight as have to set off hideously early to drop kids off before getting to studio for 9am....

OP posts:

saintlysecur · 09/12/2004 17:27

Yes you can spoil a child very easily, this happens whe they no longer appreciate the value of "things". It dosn't matter if you spend £1 or £100, if they appreciate what went into getting that for them then they are not spoilt, if they expect to be presented with anyting as and when they see fit to demand it then they are spoilt IMO.

My children don't get everything they want at xmas, they get a few key items and everything else is related to threr current needs and desires. They get a lot at Bday and xmas, but they do not get much during the year-they save up for thier own things duriung the year, ie game boy, new bike (when the old one is still perfectly good), extra clothes (we also buy "nice" clothes as part of xmas and bday) fnacy shoes/boots.

A lot of the time IMO spoiling seems to be about assuaging guilt (not enough time spent/ not "good" enough etc) or making up for how the parent feels they "missed out" as a child. or finally because these are all teh things the parent wants the child to have-not really about what the child really wants or needs!

Anyway-yes you can spoil a child, yes it is sad because often you end up with a child who would give thier right arm to go for a walk in the woods collecting leaves to make a picture with Mum/Dad, but what they get is carted off to Hamleys again to get another useless, unwanted plush coat.

SenoraPostrophe · 09/12/2004 17:28

well personally, I'm not sure it is possible to completely spoil a child by spending a lot of money on them on its own. I would argue that you can't really teach children about the value of money if you just buy them everything they want, but that's not quite the same.

A spoilt child is one who gets their own way all the time and I think that often people who buy their children extravagent gifts are also people who give in to their children a lot. Not always, but often.

I spent £30 on my 2 between them this year, but then they are 2.5 and 10 months. Whether or not I manage to keep the budget down when they are older remains to be seen...

TheHollyAndTheTwiglett · 09/12/2004 17:31

I think its patently obvious that you can spoil a child

But I don't think its a matter of the amount of money you spend

I think you spoil a child if you acquiese to every demand .. cannot say No to them, do not make them work or strive for things .. if you give kids everything they turn into adults who expect the world to be handed to them on a silver platter and then they get a huge shock when it isn't

But if you want to spend a fortune on your child that's your business .. I personally find £200 a week quite obscene and cannot see how that child ever will learn how to work for themselves

I personally like the millionnaires who leave all their money to charity so their kids can stand on their own two feet

mullgedwine · 09/12/2004 17:31

I think there is a difference between spoiling a child and indulging one. A spoilt child knows no value to things, always expects their own way in all matters, has no regard for others and is selfish in all things. An indulged child has material possessions that others may consider unnecessary, usually, as a result of a parent throwing money at the child rather than spending time with him/her.

SenoraPostrophe · 09/12/2004 17:37

Just thought - in Spain it's very common for middle class families to buy their children a house. Our house is being let out to us while the landlords' son lives at home, then he'll have it. I think he'll get all the rent money too as the account we pay into is in his name. He's 30 (the landlords' son, this is).

He is actually a nice man, but the whole idea of buying a house for your children (as opposed to being guarantor, or helping with a deposit) absolutely appalls me. He won't appreciate what it is to work hard for something, and he won't appreciate what he has.

zebra · 09/12/2004 17:45

I thought that it was really tough to get on property ladder in Spain...?

On topic, I think "spoilt" means unappreciative. Either they dont' appreciate the thought, or the cost, or both. When my kids ask for something like as not I often tell them they can't have everything they want, we can't afford it. We are also big on teaching them to say thank you... I don't expect them to 'like' every gift/toy they ever get, but I do want them to learn to recognise the value of what other people do for them, and to understand that they aren't always the most important person in the room/family/class/whatever.

How much money you spend on your kids isn't as important as your child appreciating the value of the effort.

foxinsocks · 09/12/2004 17:49

I don't think it's a problem if people have money and choose to spend it on their children. I have many friends (who I've known since we were children) who were very well-off - they got fantastic presents, brilliant parties and amazing holidays. They obviously had a lot spent on them but I never thought of them as spoilt. Their parents instilled the right values in them so although they had a lot of money spent on them, they were still expected to behave properly, have manners and do as they were told. I don't think they got presents other than major events (Xmas, birthdays).

I do think indulging children is wrong though and getting them everything they ask for all year round is clearly asking for trouble as they will never learn the true value of money. It also makes birthdays/xmas more exciting if they are the only times in the year that you are bought anything major. If you keep buying stuff all year long, Xmas/birthdays will just get more excessive every year until they become normal.

One friend of ours recently said to us that they don't know what to get for Xmas for their son (aged 4) as he has everything already (messy divorce, parents fighting so compensating by buying him everything in sight). It's when that happens that I think you really have to evaluate why you are spending so much money because if it's as compensation for your time, sooner or later the child is going to pick that up and then it can be quite damaging.

SenoraPostrophe · 09/12/2004 17:57

zebra - probably should have said quite well-off middle class families. It's still more common than in the UK though.

Maybe you lot are right and knowing the value of money is part of being spoilt after all.

JoolsTide · 09/12/2004 17:58

Twiglett got there before me - as usual - couldn't have put it better myself (especially the saying 'No' bit!)

JoolsTide · 09/12/2004 18:01

agree with mullgedwine too but the sad thing is - its not the child's fault! It's us parents! (present company excepted )

expatkat · 09/12/2004 18:13

I agree with much that has been said. To add to all this, though. . . I've observed that one way to counterract some of the effects of materialism is to give kids an education in community service. I grew up in a materialistic, high-income suburb, which might easily have given me a sense of entitlement, but I happened to have attended a Quaker school which attempted to instill values of altruism and community service in students. Our school trips tended to be to homeless shelters, where we slept the floor, and then, early in the morning, got shuttled around NYC to do any number of jobs for the poor: working at a men's shelter, a woman's shelter, a soup kitchen etc. One was constantly reminded of that disconnect between what one had and what others didn't have. i think it changed a lot of us. Sure, a lot of my classmates grew up to be self-interested t*ssers anyway, but a lot of others kids who might otherwise have gone down that road became better, more outward-looking people as a result.

tigermoth · 09/12/2004 18:41

From what I've seen, I think certain children are more likely to become spoiled if indulged. You have to factor in the child's personality.

I think taking children to toy shops for a browse, but not buying them anything, is a great lesson in life. It's not good to take away all their dream of toys, and if your children get all they want, they have no toy to dream about.

Berchta · 09/12/2004 19:24

i think another good word to use in this discussion is expectation. my children are more andmore expecting by devine right the things they ask for and ithink just 3 years ago they would make do with any old shit and love it - becuase they appreciated it as there was no expectation.

my three need a good stint in the cotton mills

bluemoon · 09/12/2004 20:35

To follow on from Senorapostrophe I agree that 'spoiling' has nothing to do with money, or it need not have. I live in a very deprived area of South East London and I see kids basically treated like 'shit' in lots of ways (shouted and sworn at and often slapped) but at the same time every pack of flourescent coloured pop and weird shaped crisps they ask for they are given and they are in the best most expensive Nike trainers. Are those kids 'spoiled'? I honestly don't know.

SnowmAngeliz · 09/12/2004 20:48

Haven't read posts so hope i'm not going out on a limb on me own

I think that it's MUCH more easy to spoil a child by giving in-letting them get their own way-anything for a quiet life kind of attitude rather than money wise.
My dd gets loads of pressies and treats at Christmas but she waits for them and values them. She has a lovely attitude and if we're out shopping and askes for something and is told no, she accepts that (MOST of the time but she is 3!!).
The point i'm making, (without wanting to sound boastful), is that i feel that although i could have afforded to 'spoil her rotten' , i've worked very hard to raise her with values and the realisation that not everything is gonna fall into her lap. (where as a close freind of mine with 2 boys has not got the money to spoil her boys (aged 2 + 3) and yet IMO, they Are spoilt and don't appear to know right from wrong.

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