Mumsnet undermining breastfeeding again.

[Redebs]

Just read the Mumsnet article on caring for newborn babies. It's sponsored by a bottle manufacturer.

Much of it is misinformation that will seriously interfere with mothers' success with breastfeeding. For example trying to get a feeding routine for a two month old baby. This is totally against normal practice for on demand breastfeeding.

Anyone aiming for regular naps will be seriously frustrated and will think there is something wrong with them and their baby. Night feeding is treated as if it's a massive burden that should be shared by using a bottle.The massively negative impact of inaccurate information and expectations is aimed at discouraging breastfeeding.

There's a 'helpful' link to another article on 'combination feeding' aka introducing formula, along with references to a whole lot of bottle feeding products you should buy.

The WHO condemns companies that use misinformation and pressure on mothers not to breastfeed. While it may be subtly disguised, that is exactly what articles like this are doing.

And for money.

Why am I? Go on tell me what I've done on this thread to liken me to a secret police force....

I laughed out loud at Breastapo and totally get where that poster is coming from! i was mentally very unwell and refused anti-depressants and expressed for 4 months because i was so obsessed by the need for breast milk. I really don't think advertising has anything to do with people choosing or (just as much) having to bottle feed and OP your post contains a number of points that are your opinion ,they aren't fact....some people BF, some people bottle feed, some people do combination....at the end of the day whatever works for you and your baby is best not what the BF purists think should be happening.

Any article on a website for mother’s that wangs on about getting a newborn into a routine is psychologically damaging as fuck. Newborns are biologically programmed to wake and feed frequently, regardless of whether it’s formula or breast.

Truth is all of mums have very different lifestyle/children and I think this is why the feeding debate always seems to blow up in these forums.

I feel like I saw in some way both sides of the coin as I received terrible, outdated advice from the NHS and the guilt from pushing back on what they wanted me to do. This was nothing to do on my own person opinions etc but because I was struggling so much with feeding and just wanted help rather than being told I wasn't good enough. I also know of KPIs and tick boxes on what the NHS wants to achieve from new mums which doesn't support any mum. The outcome of this is I now don't trust the NHS at all and don't go to them for any feeding advice.

These debates have been going since formula was invented and I've no doubt they'll continue as every mum has their own experiences and reasoning for feeding their child the way they did/are currently doing.

Truth is all of mums have very different lifestyle/children and I think this is why the feeding debate always seems to blow up in these forums.

I feel like I saw in some way both sides of the coin as I received terrible, outdated advice from the NHS and the guilt from pushing back on what they wanted me to do. This was nothing to do on my own person opinions etc but because I was struggling so much with feeding and just wanted help rather than being told I wasn't good enough. I also know of KPIs and tick boxes on what the NHS wants to achieve from new mums which doesn't support any mum. The outcome of this is I now don't trust the NHS at all and don't go to them for any feeding advice.

These debates have been going since formula was invented and I've no doubt they'll continue as every mum has their own experiences and reasoning for feeding their child the way they did/are currently doing.

Is breastfeeding the state religion or something?

I mean there’s nothing more misleading than talking about the ‘amazing properties of breast milk’ only to find out its most impressive property is a 20% less chance of an inner ear infection. Whenever you quantify the breastfeeding stats, nobody applauds you for ‘impartial information’. They just say you’re ‘being horrible’. So… double standards and all that…

This haha

‘breast milks all the same, just shove it in their mouth’ would be the counter argument to that silly response. I agree that any support whilst trying to shove a boob or a bottle into a screaming babies mouth should be welcomed. I’ve done both (frankly far preferred bottle feeding for So many reason) but also don’t really care what anyone else does as long as they are happy. I’m always baffled why people get involved in this feeding subject. Each to their own do what works for you and who cares frankly

The exact same thing happened to me. I had many breastfeeding advocates trying to get milk out of my boobs and eventually they gave up saying my baby's blood sugar was low and I'd have to go on to formula. I was made to feel like a failure and was looked down upon.

I’m always baffled why people get involved in this feeding subject.

Because they’re either arrogant enough to feel their decision needs affirming by other women choosing the same thing, or they want to hark back to their breastfeeding days and feel a bit smug under the guise of ‘concern for women and the health of children’.

There’s a reason their threads are always about withholding bottle/formula information rather than ‘hey, seen this great video showing how to do a rugby hold?’ or ‘a few hacks I learned about caring for sore nipples’.

It’s the same as the anti-abortion brigade who, rather than doing anything useful to make it easier for women to keep the babies, just want their access to termination to be restricted and damn the consequences after that.

And they’ll never tell you about the fact many women damage their mental health and their baby’s physical health by pursuing breastfeeding at all costs. They don’t care about ‘vulnerable women’ then, they just want it swept under the rug.

I have breastfed 3 DCs and am giving formula to the 4th. I did not have enough milk this time, and as hard as I tried (for 2 weeks) I did not want my DD to starve, so I gave her formula.
I spent hours trying to look up what type of bottle to use, how to read the cues for hunger etc, because I knew it is possible to overfeed and all other questions I had, as I don't know anyone who has FF recently.
There was very little information available, relative to how much there is on breastfeeding. An article like this one, would have been very reassuring to me.
This does not mean that the article is persuading me to use the formula, but it is giving me information on how to do it in the best way, given that I couldn't breastfeed this time around.
People like the OP are what have made me feel so guilty that I have had to Formula feed. But if I had not, my DD would have been in hospital. As it was she did not produce a dirty nappy, after the initial meconium nappies, for 2 weeks!! She also was only producing a small amount of wee. She needed the formula and yet people like you OP, would rather that I did not have the information to feed my baby safely???
Of course I would rather not formula feed. It is expensive, and the baby has to wait each time she needs a bottle for it to be ready. There is also the risk of constipation, or not enough nutrition if not prepared accurately, and teh risk of bacteria. and the lack of natural immunity for the baby.
But my baby needed food!

Seems better balanced and very sensible?

I only got information antenatally about EBFIng, which ended up making my baby seriously ill. Something I didn't know was a possibility. There's far too much promotion of breastfeeding (a lot of it hyperbolic) and parents need Information about formula and balanced info about both (eg pros and cons of both) in order to make informed decisions.

Exactly! But don’t feel guilty remotely. I breast fed one child exclusively and formula/bottle fed the other exclusively. The formula fec D.C. never ever gets ill, is academically excelling, balanced and happy. Ironically the great fed D.C. struggles in school, in friendships and is constantly unwell and allergies to so many things. To be clear they probably were destined to be this way anyway regardless of breast/bottle but people seem to think breast milk is a magic key to health and A* immunity and clearly made no difference on our case 😂 I’m all for the mums mental health: do whatever makes this stressful time in your life easy and your baby will be just fine. Also as mum of teenagers this will be a distant memory and one day you won’t care 😂

My daughter was physically unable to breastfeed, it was impossible. I needed information on bottle feeding and the midwives refused as they weren't allowed.
This article would have been very useful to me.

Exactly. Just ignore them. They must be a barrel of laughs 😂

And there's masses of support out there for BFIng. All the midwives and HVs were pushing it, there was a lactation consultant on postnatal. They were all encouraging me to keep on EBFing. My area was full of BFing support groups, they were the only thing still running as the council closed children's centres in a round of budget cuts.

Try to get support for formula - nope, midwives wouldn't support its use (even refusing to tell me how to sterilise bottles correctly). HV refused to provide information about formula and just pushed more BFing. This is despite a clear medical need to supplement with formula. When I needed to go on antidepressants I wasn't offered a choice between an A-D I knew worked for me but would mean stopping BFing, or taking a different BFing-safe A-D, I was just put on the BFing safe one (which had terrible side effects).

I'm a longterm BFer. I BF for 3.5 years in the end and no one ever batted an eyelid about me doing so. But the formula shaming was something else - the negative comments and snide remarks at BFIng support for using formula!

@OzzyOzworn thank you. I keep on telling myself that my happy baby is only happy because she is getting enough to eat, but it is hard not to let the negative thoughts come in.
Also for me, the child I breastfed for the longest is the one with the lowest immunity and allergies!!

Around 5% of women actually can’t breastfeed yet you get dozens on here claiming they can’t. Most lack the support or the determination to do it. If you and your baby are happy then fine, but call it what it is, it’s not that you ‘can’t’ BF, you don’t want to

I say this as a longterm (several years) BFer but I do wish promotion of BFing fell under the same marketing restrictions as formula. The amount of hyperbole about the 'benefits' is ridiculous.

I was told so much stuff about BFIng antenatally that turned out to be rubbish - lovely snuggly bonding experience (hated it, we bonded during bottle feeding), every woman can EBF (no they can't - many have medical reasons that cause milk delay/low supply), BFing is free (no, it isn't, the basic cost for us was about the same as formula), BFing means your child will be healthier, won't be diabetic or have allergies and will be cleverer (the evidence for all of this is highly dubious and of poor quality), if you BF you won't get breast cancer (the risk reduction is actually 0.5% in some circs).

It's great if someone wants to BF, is fully informed about doing so (eg I had no idea of the risks of EBFing) and has a good supply, and finds they enjoy doing it. Yes, they deserve support, but so do all the other women out there who don't want to BF, or whose babies were put at risk by BFing or whose mental health has been damaged by BFing. There need to be support for infant feeding, not just BFing.

And so what if some don’t want to? Why should you care?

But the point the op was making was that she felt the article could be classed as advertising. Please lets concentrate on that point. If such advertising is banned then have MN overstepped the mark? If they have and have also financially gained from the article then that needs investigation. Surprised no one has commented from MN.

It’s ok to want to. It’s ok to not want to. It’s ok to want to but not be able to. I’m ok to not want to then you end up doing it. It’s ok to do both. Long as you’re happy, your baby isn’t hungry…guess what…it’s ok:) and to PP saying breasts are too often seen as sexual objects. They are because they are and what’s wrong with that…. They are also/can also feed babies (or not) and what’s wrong with that? They are both. And guess what that’s ok…. Also I’m sure 99% of women who bottle feed don’t do so due to thinking of their own boobs are sexual objects 😂 personally I would also rather not feel completely devoid of my previous self and relate more to a dairy cow. But that’s just me. And that’s ok too :)

Not true. There's a certain % who can't BF at all eg had a mastectomy, IGT or it's incompatible with medication for conditions like epilepsy

Then there's a much higher % who won't be able to produce a full supply, whether initially (milk delay, which can be weeks rather than days) or permanently. This is widely acknowledged in the animal world but somehow ignored for humans!

Don't forget that women now have babies who wouldn't have been able to have them in the past and those are reasons for a milk delay and low supply eg PCOS, thyroid problems, diabetes, haemorrhage during the birth, CS, infertility.