What's the point of the two new SN topics for adults with disabilities?

[inheritancetrack]

So following requests for a topic relating to adults and/or children with physical disabilities, we now have two new threads... mumsnetters with disabilities and mumsnetters with neuro diversity.

The requests from the original poster and contributors to that thread were specifically asking for a topic on physical disabilities relating to PIP, wheelchairs, employment adjustments and generally advice on living with the multitude of physical disabilities which affect people. These include illnesses causing physical disablement, like accidents, arthritis, multiple sclerosis etc, as well as long standing conditions like cerebral palsy. So this audience is large and generally ignored.

So what have we ended up with? Two topics which yet again are all about neuro diversity, ASD, ADHD, dyslexia and so on. 2 out of the first 28 posts (gave up counting then) are actually related to physical disability. Those 2 posts are lost in the other posts and have a couple or no replies.

On the original request post there was a lot of pushback from posters pointing out that autism was classed as a disability and therefore there need not be a distinction. No one denied it was a disability but the request was for support for physical disabilities, which are quite different, and which has just been ignored.

Honestly MN, adding the word 'physical' to the new disability topic does not make you discriminatory. It just clarifies and signposts the topic and stops people like me, with a physically disabled teenager, from feeling pushed out into the cold. A good opportunity to embrace true inclusion has been thrown away.

@Scautish you are perfectly describing both the “social model of disability” and a lot of what’s being discussed on the ND board.

www.scope.org.uk/about-us/social-model-of-disability/

Come over and join in!

@Imitatingdory

There’s not 2 new boards, only one new one (neurodiverse mumsnetters) and one that has been renamed (now mumsnetters with disabilities, previously mumsnetters with SN). This is why there are threads about neurodiversity in mumsnetters with disabilities, because they were started there prior to the new board.

This @inheritancetrack

They are old threads.

@scautish I apologise for upsetting you.
The problem with having the ND board on the main chat boards is that NT people come along and derail every post with "everyone's a little autistic" and "can you diagnose my husband because he has no empathy".
We tried a chat thread recently and within about 6 posts, it started. It starts arguments and it's just not a nice space to be in.
Where we have it now is perfect imo.

The other thing you may or may not be aware of @Scautish is that one of the big things that led to demand for a ND corner was the long running series of “support” threads, on the main boards, for NTs married to NDs.

Many of us felt (feel) that autists and ND people generally are consistently portrayed as bullies and psychopaths on those threads, and that indeed many posters on those thread were wrongly giving amateur diagnoses of neurodiversity to partners who are just nasty neurotypicals.

A lot of us ended up thoroughly peed off with it and wanted somewhere safe away from the stereotyping and misunderstandings.

There was also a lot of disagreement between us about exactly what we’d like, where we’d like it and what terms should be used, so MNHQ clearly took their time to read all the contradictions opinions and come up with the best solution.

If you already know all of this, ignore me, but I thought it was worth recounting the backstory for anyone who is unaware.

Just to reveal myself. I am Scautish and named changes to HypocrisyHere- Thoose you will be aware of the two threads I started.

I’m very aware of the nightmare support threads and was really hoping for more consistency and les ableism in the moderation of threads about those of us with “Asperger’s” or it’s equivalent.

I genuinely believe we need to push Asperger’s (autistic adults without learning difficulties is what I mean) into the mainstream and not tucked away in special needs. We are mainstream. Or we should be amd we need to put impetus on those who are ignorant on how our autism affects us and also THE IMPACT THEY HAVE KN IS AND HOW THEY CAUSE SO MANY IF THE PROBLEMS - then blame us when we don’t respond to them in their preferred way.

I’m sorry for getting so wound up - I’m just so fed up of having to pander to the privileged majority and they need to be held to
Account for their lack of empathy and understanding towards us.

Grrr. Of to walk to the dog.

[ That’s a curve ball.

Just name changing back to try to prove I am also HypocrisyHere- hopefully I won’t be deleted as I’m technically a sock puppet now!

I hadn’t seen the With Disabilities board - I saw the neurodiversity board which I’m very grateful for, and have posted on.

But I totally agree OP - physical disabilities are distinct and it makes sense to clarify. I would welcome a specific physical disabilities board that I can post on about issues relating to my disabling chronic health conditions, and keeping the ND board for autism/ADHD stuff

I genuinely believe we need to push Asperger’s (autistic adults without learning difficulties is what I mean) into the mainstream and not tucked away in special needs. We are mainstream. Or we should be amd we need to put impetus on those who are ignorant on how our autism affects us and also THE IMPACT THEY HAVE KN IS AND HOW THEY CAUSE SO MANY IF THE PROBLEMS - then blame us when we don’t respond to them in their preferred way.

I do know what you mean.

In a way, I’m not convinced the internet is the best place to do that kind of awareness raising, or prejudice- breaking because I suspect what actually happens is we post about our NDs and the majority immediately form a picture of us that’s incredibly misleading and stereotyped and can’t get past it, and because they can’t see us, the stereotype isn’t challenged. They just read it and think “Oh a female Maurice Moss/Rainman”, and kind of mentally dismiss us as one dimensional caricatures. The presumption is palpable.

Whereas when I disclose my diagnosis IRL, people do this big (and admittedly irritating) thing of vociferous disbelief. So I grit my teeth and at least feel like I’ve achieved something.

So I feel like RL is the place to shatter stereotyping. Maybe that’s just me.

I did decide a few years ago to be more open about it on and off line, though, and sod the idiots.

Complicated, though, isn’t it?

I genuinely believe we need to push Asperger’s (autistic adults without learning difficulties is what I mean) into the mainstream and not tucked away in special needs. We are mainstream. Or we should be amd we need to put impetus on those who are ignorant on how our autism affects us and also THE IMPACT THEY HAVE KN IS AND HOW THEY CAUSE SO MANY IF THE PROBLEMS - then blame us when we don’t respond to them in their preferred way.

I completely agree with the sentiment, but we're so far away from that in reality. I'd rather the ND board be away from the 'mainstream' because it feels like a safe space. We need that because constantly trying to overcome stigma and societal barriers is exhausting.

whereas Neurodiversity is the in thing and people want to relate about the seams on clothes and weighted blankets and other issues that are well publised at the moment.

We are not 'the in thing'. We are individuals just like you. If you think society is accepting or accommodating of ND people, then you're either misinformed or just plain ignorant.

@Mrsjayy

Mumsnet don't cope well with physical disabilities in adults I don't know if it makes people uncomfortable or they don't know how to relate so say nothing, whereas Neurodiversity is the in thing and people want to relate about the seams on clothes and weighted blankets and other issues that are well publised at the moment.

Nope, I can’t agree there. Not my experience at all.

Oh I'm sorry I didn't mean to be dismissive by saying the "in thing" all I meant was its spoken about a lot and s new phrase that people are relating too I'm not explaining myself well I'll get my post deleted sorry again.

People who aren’t disabled mostly just see all disability as “other” @Mrsjayy, It’s subconscious and deeply culturally ingrained. I think you tend to be more aware of whatever attitudes are impacting you (and again I have ND dx and neuromuscular disease, so experience both).

Sensory issues are attracting more awareness, but that doesn’t mitigate or dilute the nastiness or the stereotyping.

Sorry OP for derailing with my rant.

But absolutely support a distinct physical disabilities topic. I have a physical disability too and any ND topic is irrelevant to that.

I now need to decompress as when on my dog walk someone I hadn’t seen for two years talked at me for about 30mins. She didn’t pick up on any social clues that I wanted to go away so had to resort to “my dog is thirsty so I need to go”.

@Imitatingdory

And if you want a board for ND posters and a board for physical disability where does that leave those that don’t fall into either camp, but do have a disability?

I've said there can be a crossover. if your have both disabilities you may one day be interested in a wetroom, and on another asking about sensory overload in crowded places, so you would go to the topic that is more likely to address those points for you.

@Pebblex Yes, but the latest one is not about a physical disability is it? I'm only asking for clearer signposting on one of the topics. Ok so one isn't a 'new' topic, just renamed, but its as clear as mud about who its aimed at. People with ASC and the other ND conditions also have disabilities.

I'll keep watching the MN with disabilities topic and will even post there! Not convinced though, but we will see in time.

@Scautish rant away. we all have those days

@inheritancetrack it’s not splitting hairs to point out that not all neurodevelopmental conditions are about ‘seeing the world differently’ and that they include physical disabilities. DCD is most definitely a neurodevelopmental disorder, as is cerebral palsy for that matter.
And ND doesn’t cover the majority of unseen disabilities, which would include an enormous amount of medical conditions such as mental health conditions.
Im not sure there can be a different chat for everything . I take your point that much will be irrelevant to the majority, but that’s also true with the different unseen disabilities.

inheritancetrack You are missing my point. If you want 2 boards - 1 for ND mumsnetters and one for mumsnetters with physical disabilities where does someone who has a disability but is neither physically disabled nor neurodiverse post? At the moment mumsnetters with disabilities can include all types of disabilities so they can post there, but with your proposal of only 2 boards they are left ‘homeless’.

It is extremely clear who mumsnetters with disabilities is aimed at, it is aimed at any mumsnetter with a disability.

I hadn’t realised that there are two boards. I’m one that contributed to the threads. I’d fit into both. I’ve just been on and I think there needs to be a header on the the Disabilities that there is a separate ND section as well. I think I’ll also start a topic there later on Cerebral Palsy and see what happens.

[quote BungleandGeorge]@inheritancetrack it’s not splitting hairs to point out that not all neurodevelopmental conditions are about ‘seeing the world differently’ and that they include physical disabilities. DCD is most definitely a neurodevelopmental disorder, as is cerebral palsy for that matter.
And ND doesn’t cover the majority of unseen disabilities, which would include an enormous amount of medical conditions such as mental health conditions.
Im not sure there can be a different chat for everything . I take your point that much will be irrelevant to the majority, but that’s also true with the different unseen disabilities.[/quote]
We are not talking about 'neurodevelopmental' conditions but 'neurodiversity'. As so many MNetters with ASC and similar conditions campaigned for this topic, and got it why cant the people who asked for a topic for physical disabilities get their space?

I did point out to you that DCD and Cerebral palsy came under a similar heading and fall into the category of physical disability.

Neuro diversity would not include mental health conditions, unless they related directly to a neuro diversity such as autism. That clearly falls under health conditions. There is a topic in the health section for that. There is also a health section for medical conditions. I can't personally think of other unseen disabilities that wouldn't fall under the heading ND? Most are about perceiving the world differently and those difficulties need addressing. As does the need for wetrooms and so on if you have a physical disability.

To me its a NDiversity if the person is forced to fit into a world that doesn't understand them, and a physical disability when someone needs adaptations to fit into the world that also doesn't understand them.

Something else MN HQ may want to look at is the two topics appearing in active? Sometimes it invites a lot of people looking to be contrary.

I can't personally think of other unseen disabilities that wouldn't fall under the heading ND?

Epilepsy
Crohns / IBD
Acquired brain injury
Fibromyalgia

Those are just some that came to mind. I’ve no direct experience with any of them, but think they’d all be counted as invisible / hidden disabilities even where there’s a physical component. (Please correct me if I’m wrong about this - no desire to cause offence)

I do agree that there should be a board for physical disabilities if people want that, but I also think that a “general disability” section is useful, as there will be things that don’t neatly and / or discretely fit into another category.