URGENT! Mumsnet needs help with Radio Interview tomorrow (tues)

[Carrie (mumsnet)]

Hi guys

Carrie and Justine are appearing on Radio Scotland tomorrow morning and need to give advice to a mum of a five year old girl who won't go to bed. The mum's tried bribery, videos, routine - but child just says she's not tired, gets up etc.
She has a 10 yr old brother who goes to bed at 8pm, but she's often still up at 10pm.
All advice, anecdotes, suggestions welcome

We also have to give advice for a different newspaper interview to the mum of three yr old boy/girl twins who are developing - predictably - at different speeds in different directions. Both mum and children are finding this difficult to cope with. Particularly looking for fun anecdotes, advice and suggestions for this one.

Thanks - as ever - in advance

Sorry this is so late! Must remember to check if my postings have worked before leaving office!!
It should have been up a few hours ago.

Sorry and hope there are still some folks awake who can help!

Up the ante on the bribery? Change her room around? Exhaust her during the day - no TV?

Re not going to bed: She needs a zero tolerance policy on this one. instigate a routine, and stick to it. bath, 2 or 3 stories, song and sleep (or whatever). then however many times she gets up, put her back to bed. no ranting, no discussion, no negotiation, just back to bed. It will be one evening of hell and tantrums, one or two evenings of difficulty, and fine after that. But she must do it, at 5 the little girl must be going to school/getting tired, she needs her sleep!
She could do it in conjunction iwth a star chart and a prize after eg 5 nights of compliance, but I wouldn't travel any more down the road of bribery than that. This is one area where boundaries are needed I think.

no help on the twins thing though

The only thing I can advise Carrie (being a twin myself) is the parents should ALWAYS encourage both children in their achievements however large or small. I was not allowed to discuss my excellent achievements for fear of upsetting my non-academic (but more cheerful) twin. Really pissed me off and even after all these years.

Sleep problems? take the light bulb out!

pph - perfect solution - I'm with you!

Princess is right - strict routine should do it - but might take longer than one night.

5 year old.. just started yr1?.. lots of things going on in her head at the moment.
She may need more 'quality' time to talk things through with mum/dad.
My dd often says she isn't tired (when she really is)... because her head is still buzzing from her school day.
I would suggest a calm wind down .. she can do some quiet activities, then a regular slot allocated to her to talk about whatever she wants to.
Another thought, it may be that she is actually Overtired.. (so can't switch off either)
in which case her bedtime needs to be moved forward.

I guess the first question would be "IS the girl actually tired?" I have 2 boys who need very little sleep. The eldest (4yrs old) is starting to sleep a little more but my 20mth-old is still wide awake at 10.30pm and has only a short nap in the day. If the girl isn't overtired in the day then she might not need extra sleep.

If she IS tired then perhaps they could try moving her bedtime back by a short amount of time each night, eg 5 minutes, until it gets to a more reasonable hour.

Agree - strict routine is the only way

Dear Carrie,
The mother could try accepting it & see what happens. Let her dd go to bed at 10.00pm. All the fuss & attention of the bedtime routine, that dd would expect, would just go. She could play, tidy up, draw etc but no tv. She should be woken up at the same time each morning - perhaps when her brother gets up. During the day there is no nap at home or childcare. Brother gets lots of praise for his going to bed at 8pm. Probably she would change her mind & go to bed around 8pm.
Best wishes.

RE bed time, I would do a variation on PPH's strict boundaries solution. I would have a very strict boundary around her being in her bedroom but let her have a little bit of control by letting her read for a short while before lights out.

So routine would be take up to bed and settle. Tuck in bed and quick kiss goodnight. Tell her lights are out in 10 mins time- point out on clock when this will be if she is able to tell the time. Durning this 10mins they can read a book but they must not get out of bed!

Return in 10 mins and put light out.

This lets them have some time on their own, when they can gradually wind down so that by the time you go in to put the light out they should be much calmer and ready for sleep. Like a transition period between play and sleep if you like.

Like PPH I would ruthlessly enforce the boundaries, taken straight back to bed if gets up and after the 10 min wind down period the light goes out and IS NOT TURNED BACK ON AGAIN for any reason whatsoever!

Agree with routine. Would also maybe give a small reward for each night she goes to sleep without hassle. That was what they did on little angels. It was something like "oh look the sleep fairy has left you soemthing at the end of your bed for going to sleep so well last night!" That was the morning after they had slept well. How about lavender on the pillow or something similar.

my 5 yr old is allowed to listen to story tapes, music (quietly)if she can't sleep... my main objection is her disturbing anyone else.

We can all have problems sleeping, and like eating, it is one of those things you cannot force!..

Routine, and encouragement by all means but my dd
needs more than stickers these days!!!
We combine good nightime behaviour with her pocket money.. so at the end of the week, if she has had a good one, she gets a pound... (reduced by 10p for any messing around)

As she is saving up for an expensive toy at the moment, she also has a goal in sight.
(a side benefit of this... it is helping her maths!!!!)

It depends on whether the 5 year old really is tired or not. If she's not tired, then it's wrong imo to force her to bed. I remember lying in bed with the light off, not tired, for ages as a kid. My dd2 (8) is like this, and is allowed to read, play quietly and listen to tapes. It does help to try and tire her out, but she seems to have boundless energy. Dd3 (5) and dd1 (10) have always needed more sleep.

If the 5 year old is not tired in the morning, then maybe the mum could start a routine of 'bedroom time' rather than bedtime and find ways for the little girl to amuse herself safely until she's actually tired out?

Agree 100% with PPH. Just keep taking her back to bed. She needs to sleep.